my visit with hendrik

[Hendrik]

That sucks you think 'your' WC can't even be passed along and gets so distorted in such a short period of time.

I dont have to think, I describe reality in human world.

Can your WCK past the 150 years test?

Check it out,
There are plenty of those who make big claim and after decades cant even comes up with a traceable ancestors tree which shows 100 years of history. but keep posting as upper hand posture as the oldest of WCK, isnt it strange? What is those type of WCK tell about their art? a make up but market it as oldest?

hahaha, now that's funny sh!t right there. Hendrik from the Lost Planet trying to welcome me to 'his world'. No thanks, I want no part of your fantasy Island mumbo jumbo.

Sure. we are from two different world. My world is the one open under the sun, and as for your world, think what you like. that is totally perfect with me.

Since you are not living in the same world as mine.
I expect you to no longer post in this thread because there is nothing you could contribute in my world.

[Hendrik]

the first one looks like 21.17 --22. the second one looks like 23.40 with the hand rest on the waist. all got to do with medirians....

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/PCfwINzHcGs/

A note for anyone who would like to get health, the 21.17 is good for lowering blood pressure, the 23.4 is very good for strengthen and fine tune over all of the body. practice for 100 steps a day and one could see result as short as after a week.

I really suggest the second one to include in senior older age WCner program for health benifit. This is real stuffs. this one open up the eight special medirians.

[JPinAZ]

Ok, let's be 'men' and see if you can handle it, because obviously you have been having a hard time doing that up untill now with the name calling, sensorship, trying to 'drive me a way' (funny that one).

Since you say you have to reconstruct YK WC from books/writing because you find distortions and lost references and information, are you denying any of the following reasons could be possible for the holes you are finding in your WC:

1. You might not have gotten the complete transmission when you learned from your sifu (did you baisi as you say we all should to get complete tansmission?)

2. Your sifu simply might not have gotten the complete transmission, or maybe just didn't pass it completely to you for any number of possible reasons.

3. Yik Kam might not have gotten the complete transmission from his teacher.

- 3a. If he didn't get the complete transmission, then he might have gone on to add in other things like Emei or crane to fill in the lost references or distortions he also saw, as you do.

4. Maybe the distortions you think you 'see' that you 'think' happened over time really are just the way things have always been since YK learned his WC from his teacher. I mean really, without a time machine or crystal ball, how do you know things have changed. You really don't.

If you are a 'man' as you like to throw the word around, and putting your ego aside, then you can't deny the possibility that any or a combination of these things could be valid reasons why you feel you are having to 'reconstruct' your WC from books and writing and also why you can't just go baisi to someone and get the transmission without the holes.
It seems to me that even me mentioning these possibilites is such a hardship for you that you want to drive me away, call me names, say that I'm being negative, etc. This is all very funny, because I am not saying that any are the actual case, because I really don't know. As you don't. This is contributing to the discussion DIRECTLY, and should never have to be deleted just because it shakes someone's fragile glass-house view of the world.

But perhaps I'm wrong. As a 'man', I can say that honestly - can you?

[Hendrik]

Ok, let's be 'men' and see if you can handle it

It is your issue and poor behavior which you have to face. Not my issue.

thanks but no thanks on your , as usual , time wasting, " possibly/May be " opinions. No time for those fantasy. sorry.




As in my previous post to you,
you have plenty for yourself to solve for your own WCK isnt it?
why dont you face it and then start a new thread to acknowledge the WCK world what is going on with you WCK? and If I am interested I will read it if not I will passed.

Please dont bring your dirty laundry here to cover up your issues. as the old tactic of keep pick on others with NONsense so that one doesnt notice one's own problem.


In case you forgot, the following is the recap.

That sucks you think 'your' WC can't even be passed along and gets so distorted in such a short period of time.

I dont have to think, I describe reality in human world.

Can your WCK past the 150 years test?

Check it out,

There are plenty of those who make big claim and after decades cant even comes up with a traceable ancestors tree which shows 100 years of history. but keep posting as upper hand posture as the oldest of WCK, isnt it strange? What is those type of WCK tell about their art? a make up but market it as oldest?

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/show...9&postcount=16


Your post is not appreciate here as I have mention in two of my previous posts above. So, please leave.

Here on you post will be ignored.

[theo]

Thanks for the reply Hendrik!

So you are adjusting the angle of your body in relation to the opponent's force so that the opponent can't can't find a solid place to exert his force onto, as he would if you were doing peng jin? ( similar to yang lu chan holding a sparrow in his hand and not allowing it to take off because he adjust to the sparrow's leg pressure)

I had a friend who did wu tai chi whom as well as wing chun, in chi sao he was able to do this really well when you apply force against his body.

hello KFF,

When Hendrik demonstrated hua jing, I was pushing directly into his chest, he did not use his arms as I was already in contact with his chest. At that distance, angling or moving would already be inconvenient. What happened was that the force I was directing was dissolved by his structure adjusting to dissolve the force so that it would not find a reaction path.

Peng jing is different, that is a "Warding off" force that feels like pushing against a wall

[RB93SAAT]

We then discussed a little about what is hua jing and peng jing. For peng jing, I placed both hands on Hendrik's arm and he generated a ward-off type of force that when I pressed, was like pushing against a wall. For hua jing, Hendrik allowed me to find his center of gravity and then easily adjusted so that I could not find it again.

'a ward-off type of force' just like tai chi, there's no BFD with this simple excercise -"direction of movement; 运动规律" peng jing is also a form of exercise.

Since you say you have to reconstruct YK WC from books/writing because you find distortions and lost references and information, are you denying any of the following reasons could be possible for the holes you are finding in your WC:

1. You might not have gotten the complete transmission when you learned from your sifu (did you baisi as you say we all should to get complete tansmission?)

2. Your sifu simply might not have gotten the complete transmission, or maybe just didn't pass it completely to you for any number of possible reasons.

3. Yik Kam might not have gotten the complete transmission from his teacher.

- 3a. If he didn't get the complete transmission, then he might have gone on to add in other things like Emei or crane to fill in the lost references or distortions he also saw, as you do.

4. Maybe the distortions you think you 'see' that you 'think' happened over time really are just the way things have always been since YK learned his WC from his teacher. I mean really, without a time machine or crystal ball, how do you know things have changed. You really don't.

regarding to yik kam's slt 'exercise', you need to ask these questions before anyone could understand what's going on here.why did yik kam want to mix his wc with o-mei and crane? did he ever finish his wc training? since wong wah bo wing chun had already existed long before this unknown yik kam slt 'exercise', was yik kam slt the same art as wong wah bo wing chun? if no...then it compels people to the drawing board, ask where is the wing chun???... instead of listening hendrik's mumbo jumbo. all these facts are here to discuess for anyone truly want to know more about this yik kam. at least in history, yik kam himself never called his art wing chun, just called yik kam slt (little excercise). because he knew his art was not pure wing chun, mixed with o-mei and crane. just like bruce lee called his art jeet kune do.

[JPinAZ]

It is your issue and poor behavior which you have to face. Not my issue.

thanks but no thanks on your , as usual , time wasting, " possibly/May be " opinions. No time for those fantasy. sorry.

As in my previous post to you,
you have plenty for yourself to solve for your own WCK isnt it?
why dont you face it and then start a new thread to acknowledge the WCK world what is going on with you WCK? and If I am interested I will read it if not I will passed.

Has nothing to do with 'me' or 'my WC', my WCK is just fine. I haven't found any distortions or missing pieces or information as of yet that cause me to have to look at some old scrolls or sayings for answers like you have. If I have a question I can't answer for myself thru my training, I ask my sifu directly for guidance. Call me lucky I guess

Please dont bring your dirty laundry here to cover up your issues. as the old tactic of keep pick on others with NONsense so that one doesnt notice one's own problem.

In case you forgot, the following is the recap.

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/show...9&postcount=16

Your post is not appreciate here as I have mention in two of my previous posts above. So, please leave.

Here on you post will be ignored.

I'm not the one with the problem, I'm here and open to discuss. If what I say scares you to the point that you can't reply, then that is on you. Last I checked, this was a forum for open discussion and debate, and a free country last time I checked, not one under communist rule. You don't like my views, just put me on ignore.

[JPinAZ]

regarding to yik kam's slt 'exercise', you need to ask these questions before anyone could understand what's going on here.why did yik kam want to mix his wc with o-mei and crane? did he ever finish his wc training?

This is exactly my question as well.

since wong wah bo wing chun had already existed long before this unknown yik kam slt 'exercise', was yik kam slt the same art as wong wah bo wing chun? if no...then it compels people to the drawing board, ask where is the wing chun???... instead of listening hendrik's mumbo jumbo.

I am assuming that since WWB's WCK was around before yik kam, then yik kam couldn't have made it up right? So my question would then be, who did Yik Kam learn his WC from, and how much did he really learn? Simple question I would think.

all these facts are here to discuess for anyone truly want to know more about this yik kam. at least in history, yik kam himself never called his art wing chun, just called yik kam slt (little excercise). because he knew his art was not pure wing chun, mixed with o-mei and crane. just like bruce lee called his art jeet kune do.

I did not know that he didn't call it WC, but I did read that he did also learn o-mei and crane at some point. Are you saying that he called his mixed art of wc SLT+Omei+crane simply 'yik kam slt'? That would make sense to me since it is one of the few WC systems that does not follow the more traditional SNT/CK/BJ progression as does the other red boat arts coming from Wong Wah Bo, which was earlier than yik kam.
(I think the only other lineage that doesn't follow this progression is Gulo right?)

[kung fu fighter]

hello KFF,

When Hendrik demonstrated hua jing, I was pushing directly into his chest, he did not use his arms as I was already in contact with his chest. At that distance, angling or moving would already be inconvenient. What happened was that the force I was directing was dissolved by his structure adjusting to dissolve the force so that it would not find a reaction path.

Thanks for the reply theo!

Was Hendrik rotating and moving his torso to dissolve your force when you pushed on his chest?

or was his torso completely still?

[Hendrik]

Thanks for the reply theo!

Was Hendrik rotating and moving his torso to dissolve your force when you pushed on his chest?

or was his torso completely still?

KFF,

Isnt

At that distance, angling or moving would already be inconvenient.

Already answer your question?


You see, there is something called Moving dissolve or Jou Hua and something called Suck in dissolve or See Hua. I was using the See Hua but from you post you seem keep thinking on something close to Jou Hua.


I demonstrate the Peng type or seal off the penetration type of Jing and See Hua or suck in dissolve or absolve type of Jing among with short range soft jing to penetrate my own hand and pillow cussions to distrub Theo's structure; for the purpose of demonstrating the six directional force vectors if handling properly could generate different type of force vectors and momentum....



BTW. you get it off mark with the Hua Jing because in your mind it is obvious you keep thinking you have to root and then rotate or angle..... to get that force slip away.....etc.

Nope, those are not what I am doing. Just to be honest with you, I dissolve or arrange my own root or six directional force vectors in a way so I will be like a bag of packaging pop corn that you push into but it doesnt react but suck you in.

So, peng type is like one push on to a wall one's force just being oppost, see hua is like one push into cotton wall where there is no reaction and go right in and one lost one's balance. jou hua is like one push into a oil rolling wall where one cant pin the wall but keep slide or roll away. These all are different stuffs.



This dissolve of root is to demonstrate what I said here before, "I dont root I levitate". and I am not kidding, I describe what it is.
root is not the default and it is a limitation. years ago when people start to evolve into the rooting, everyone learn how to root. but that is not the end of the story and infact, it is just a part of the story of the advance TCMA. in fact, rooting these days become a major cause of stuck for TCMA.
So, no, rooting is not the it.

Theo could tell you what he thinks about "Levitate" is the default but not root in doing SLT.




again, these are nothing big deal in TCMA. the question is does one's set allow one to have this type of training.



Some says

'a ward-off type of force' just like tai chi, there's no BFD with this simple excercise -"direction of movement; 运动规律" peng jing is also a form of exercise.

Because these people are naive. and dont know what they are talking about.


IMHO,
Set is about momentum and force vectors handling. one wants to play ball, one better know how to handle different types of force and momentum. that is the unwritten content in the Yik Kam SLT set which I am interested in reconstructing or re touch up.

Behind all those movements of the set, could one handle the different type of momentum and force. That is the name of the game of Advance TCMA practice. Thus, it is called beyond shape. Thus, it is called dynamic structure. Or dealing with Shi (momentum)


IMHO, WCK doesnt focus on this kiu sau or that kiu sau this animal shape .. because momentum is the deal and to handle momentum one needs the sensitivity and momentum handling. it is all about at any instant how to handle the momentum. Chi Sau is a momentum handling play in the large part instead of hand or kiu sau chasing game. and IMHO, if one cant handle different type of momentum then it becomes a hand chasing game or brute force or who is faster game.

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by RB93SAAT View Post
all these facts are here to discuess for anyone truly want to know more about this yik kam. at least in history, yik kam himself never called his art wing chun, just called yik kam slt (little excercise). because he knew his art was not pure wing chun, mixed with o-mei and crane. just like bruce lee called his art jeet kune do.

Unless you dont do WCK and dont know WCK.


Sergio brought up a great point in 3.23.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4eWIAYvf9Q
It is the signature of White Crane and Emei 12 zhuang's snake slide worm moves method.



Check out 4.46, emei 12 zhuang's little training set and see how it was done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKASkDfmV9g

it is White Crane because the technic reference to center line.
it is Emei 12 zhuang because the way how the finger, arm and body handle.

clear and sharp in WCK.




As for why it is not HKM type of handling? The key is in the finger's last two joints handling.

Take a look and compare for yourself on the above Russell's 4.46 - 5.60 fingers joints handling and the following Lin's clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEe9CH3Y7Bg

From the clip, Lin's hand and finger handling while doing his set is closer to those who did Iron palm such as in Ngo Cho Kuen. It cant be the type which applied to finger specialist such as the WCK's Biu Jee. The handling is not fine enough.

Thus, the source of HKM cant be same type, it is a different type of art, with the WCK Biu Jee or SLT type.



also

Compare 0.35 of the following with 6.03-6.10 of Russell above on the finger wrapping to make a fist. (those finger wrapping are emei's signature called five fingers tracing taiji. this is what Jim Roselando talk about when he met with Emei's gate keeper)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5cqRp-YtuM




As for Sergio's question on Gm Ip Man's practice on BJ.
Let me share with you this classical case I happen to ask GM CHC decades ago.
As I was told by my Late sifu GM CHC on the way why GM Ip Man did what he did.

in Late GM CHC's word, " before one has the kung fu or while one is at training at home, one has to get every joints move to a large degree and cultivate the kung fu. after one has it, and refine it, one doesnt have to show it but all the minute move is in there. the advance the kung fu the less one will see the move of other joints. while in application, all those bigger motion doenst shown, you will only see the finger tip contact with slight wrist move."

That is how he taught me on the training and how he practiced it too.

[theo]

KFF,

Isnt



Already answer your question?


You see, there is something called Moving dissolve or Jou Hua and something called Suck in dissolve or See Hua. I was using the See Hua but from you post you seem keep thinking on something close to Jou Hua.


I demonstrate the Peng type or seal off the penetration type of Jing and See Hua or suck in dissolve or absolve type of Jing among with short range soft jing to penetrate my own hand and pillow cussions to distrub Theo's structure; for the purpose of demonstrating the six directional force vectors if handling properly could generate different type of force vectors and momentum....



BTW. you get it off mark with the Hua Jing because in your mind it is obvious you keep thinking you have to root and then rotate or angle..... to get that force slip away.....etc.

Nope, those are not what I am doing. Just to be honest with you, I dissolve or arrange my own root or six directional force vectors in a way so I will be like a bag of packaging pop corn that you push into but it doesnt react but suck you in.

So, peng type is like one push on to a wall one's force just being oppost, see hua is like one push into cotton wall where there is no reaction and go right in and one lost one's balance. jou hua is like one push into a oil rolling wall where one cant pin the wall but keep slide or roll away. These all are different stuffs.



This dissolve of root is to demonstrate what I said here before, "I dont root I levitate". and I am not kidding, I describe what it is.
root is not the default and it is a limitation. years ago when people start to evolve into the rooting, everyone learn how to root. but that is not the end of the story and infact, it is just a part of the story of the advance TCMA. in fact, rooting these days become a major cause of stuck for TCMA.
So, no, rooting is not the it.

Theo could tell you what he thinks about "Levitate" is the default but not root in doing SLT.




again, these are nothing big deal in TCMA. the question is does one's set allow one to have this type of training.



Some says

Because these people are naive. and dont know what they are talking about.


IMHO,
Set is about momentum and force vectors handling. one wants to play ball, one better know how to handle different types of force and momentum. that is the unwritten content in the Yik Kam SLT set which I am interested in reconstructing or re touch up.

Behind all those movements of the set, could one handle the different type of momentum and force. That is the name of the game of Advance TCMA practice. Thus, it is called beyond shape. Thus, it is called dynamic structure. Or dealing with Shi (momentum)


IMHO, WCK doesnt focus on this kiu sau or that kiu sau this animal shape .. because momentum is the deal and to handle momentum one needs the sensitivity and momentum handling. it is all about at any instant how to handle the momentum. Chi Sau is a momentum handling play in the large part instead of hand or kiu sau chasing game. and IMHO, if one cant handle different type of momentum then it becomes a hand chasing game or brute force or who is faster game.

Great explanation of the different types of 'dissolving'. And yup, packaing popcorn is a good way to describe it. As was said, the six directional force is the key. Using the 6D forces, if handled properly, force and momentum handling and generation is possible.

For those wondering about the short soft jing. Hendrik didn't move very much but the effect was loud and clear.

Rooting as commonly done today, the end effect is similar to being bolted to the ground or wearing cement boots. Rooting this way when doing the SLT will cause the SLT to be a dead post kind of training, great for muscle conditioning but it will not be alive and thus handicapped. Furthermore, this type of rooting already results in a fragile structure since it only accounts for one dimension. When doing the SLT with "levitation", then the set comes alive and three dimensional.

[theo]

Unless you dont do WCK and dont know WCK.


Sergio brought up a great point in 3.23.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4eWIAYvf9Q
It is the signature of White Crane and Emei 12 zhuang's snake slide worm moves method.



Check out 4.46, emei 12 zhuang's little training set and see how it was done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKASkDfmV9g

it is White Crane because the technic reference to center line.
it is Emei 12 zhuang because the way how the finger, arm and body handle.

clear and sharp in WCK.




As for why it is not HKM type of handling? The key is in the finger's last two joints handling.

Take a look and compare for yourself on the above Russell's 4.46 - 5.60 fingers joints handling and the following Lin's clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEe9CH3Y7Bg

From the clip, Lin's hand and finger handling while doing his set is closer to those who did Iron palm such as in Ngo Cho Kuen. It cant be the type which applied to finger specialist such as the WCK's Biu Jee. The handling is not fine enough.

Thus, the source of HKM cant be same type, it is a different type of art, with the WCK Biu Jee or SLT type.



also

Compare 0.35 of the following with 6.03-6.10 of Russell above on the finger wrapping to make a fist. (those finger wrapping are emei's signature called five fingers tracing taiji. this is what Jim Roselando talk about when he met with Emei's gate keeper)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5cqRp-YtuM




As for Sergio's question on Gm Ip Man's practice on BJ.
Let me share with you this classical case I happen to ask GM CHC decades ago.
As I was told by my Late sifu GM CHC on the way why GM Ip Man did what he did.

in Late GM CHC's word, " before one has the kung fu or while one is at training at home, one has to get every joints move to a large degree and cultivate the kung fu. after one has it, and refine it, one doesnt have to show it but all the minute move is in there. the advance the kung fu the less one will see the move of other joints. while in application, all those bigger motion doenst shown, you will only see the finger tip contact with slight wrist move."

That is how he taught me on the training and how he practiced it too.

As a sensing and adapting type of art, not to mention a close body art...one must be able to sense and adapt with any part of the body. One must also be able to use any part of the body as needed...the Snake activates every inch of the body from the finger tips to the toes, which when fused with the Crane shape makes WCK WCK.

"Thus I have heard" it is also important in the power generation (i.e. momentum generation )

[Hendrik]

Rooting as commonly done today, the end effect is similar to being bolted to the ground or wearing cement boots. Rooting this way when doing the SLT will cause the SLT to be a dead post kind of training, great for muscle conditioning but it will not be alive and thus handicapped. Furthermore, this type of rooting already results in a fragile structure since it only accounts for one dimension. When doing the SLT with "levitation", then the set comes alive and three dimensional.

and dont do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDxYs6V71vQ

This is creative and good for Show in Las Vegas for entertainment.

[kung fu fighter]

You see, there is something called Moving dissolve or Jou Hua and something called Suck in dissolve or See Hua. I was using the See Hua but from you post you seem keep thinking on something close to Jou Hua.

"I dont root I levitate".

What's the details/body mechanics involved in what you call See Hua to distrupt your opponent's structure?

And what do you mean by Levitate in regards to WCK?

I dissolve or arrange my own root or six directional force vectors in a way so I will be like a bag of packaging pop corn that you push into but it doesnt react but suck you in.

How do you do this?