山西抱腿 (Shanxi Bao Tui) - TCMA leg shooting

[YouKnowWho]

This little clip show some of the 山西抱腿 (Shanxi Bao Tui) - TCMA leg shooting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ2WF8soIOE

It's a movie so don't get too serious about it. It shows some interest TCMA concepts:

- When you try to challenge someone, hide your accent so your oppponts don't know where you came from. If your opponent knows that you are fom Shanxi, he will know that you like to shoot to the leg/legs.
- Before you challenge the teacher, you have to challenge his students first.
- When you put your SC jacket on by putting both arms into the sleeves at the same time. This way, your opponent won't be able to tell whether you are a right hand peson or a left hand person.
- Don't use your best moves when you challenge your minor opponents. In this clip, the challenger did not use his "leg shooting" when challenged the students.
- Move around and don't let your opponent to have a solid grips on you.
- Pretend that you are afriad the main guy and show that you have no desire to fight him. Give him some nice words. When he is happy, you suddently attack.
- Leave right way after you have won the challenge. Don't try to keep fighting. You can't fight everybody in someone's school.

Just try to show that the "leg shooting" is also used in TCMA and not just used in wrestling. Has anybody ever heard about "山西抱腿(Shanxi Bao Tui)"? The double legs can be seen at 6.10.

Here are more clips about leg/legs shooting and counters.

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ckxBaHPxPDI/

http://v.ku6.com/show/HA06S2vYOcliGbcq.html

[mickey]

Greetings,

Thank you for sharing the clip and the strategic/cultural aspects of Shuai Chiao. I really wish this had sub titles. I would get it.

Question: Have the holding actions of cats, while play wrestling, ever figure into the arsenal of Shuai Chiao? They look so similar.


mickey

[YouKnowWho]

Question: Have the holding actions of cats, while play wrestling, ever figure into the arsenal of Shuai Chiao? They look so similar.

Not sure I understand the question?

[mickey]

Hi,

By your response, I guess not.

I have observed cats at play. One of the things they enjoy doing is a type of wrestling. They stand partially upright, grab each other with their forelegs and try to unbalance each other. They use their hind legs to absorb the other's push. It is very interesting to observe. The clip you shared reminded me of that, up until the leg seizing.


mickey

[YouKnowWho]

You are right, trying to remain balance during wrestling, we are no different from cat.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnn2MAVCceI

personally, I like strike first and then throw, or da shuai.

in the 2nd clip, the person always strikes high, then the other person will be close enough to grab his both legs.

he dodges high punches and goes lower and grab. and then shoulder strike or ding to complete the throw.

there are many counters to bao tui shuai, either single leg or both leg.

----

[YouKnowWho]

personally, I like strike first and then throw, or da shuai.

The only concern that I have is when you strike, you may force your opponent to move back away from you. That will be contradict to your intention. The more that your opponent is willing to move in toward you, the more chance that you will have for your throw. For example, if your opponent always moves back, there is no way that you can get a "head lock" on him. In order to invite your opponent to come in, you have to play some tricks (like drop guard to invite punches, and raise guard to invite kicks).

[Frost]

This little clip show some of the 山西抱腿 (Shanxi Bao Tui) - TCMA leg shooting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ2WF8soIOE

It's a movie so don't get too serious about it. It shows some interest TCMA concepts:

- When you try to challenge someone, hide your accent so your oppponts don't know where you came from. If your opponent knows that you are fom Shanxi, he will know that you like to shoot to the leg/legs.
- Before you challenge the teacher, you have to challenge his students first.
- When you put your SC jacket on by putting both arms into the sleeves at the same time. This way, your opponent won't be able to tell whether you are a right hand peson or a left hand person.
- Don't use your best moves when you challenge your minor opponents. In this clip, the challenger did not use his "leg shooting" when challenged the students.
- Move around and don't let your opponent to have a solid grips on you.
- Pretend that you are afriad the main guy and show that you have no desire to fight him. Give him some nice words. When he is happy, you suddently attack.
- Leave right way after you have won the challenge. Don't try to keep fighting. You can't fight everybody in someone's school.

Just try to show that the "leg shooting" is also used in TCMA and not just used in wrestling. Has anybody ever heard about "山西抱腿(Shanxi Bao Tui)"? The double legs can be seen at 6.10.

Here are more clips about leg/legs shooting and counters.

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ckxBaHPxPDI/

http://v.ku6.com/show/HA06S2vYOcliGbcq.html

thanks for posting i now see where the differences are when we talk about shooting and leg attacks, the SC guys dont do low penetrate steps or touch the knee to the floor on their doubles and dont look to cover distance with them, they dont seem to blow through the opponent either but stand and pick up

as for the other 2 clips the first was great, the second, well the attacks were not very practical which meant the defence wasn't that good

[goju]

Hi,

By your response, I guess not.

I have observed cats at play. One of the things they enjoy doing is a type of wrestling. They stand partially upright, grab each other with their forelegs and try to unbalance each other. They use their hind legs to absorb the other's push. It is very interesting to observe. The clip you shared reminded me of that, up until the leg seizing.


mickey

thats true haha ive even seen them roll forward like they are trying to grab a leg for a knee bar when another cat gets behind them

[YouKnowWho]

the SC guys dont do low penetrate steps or touch the knee to the floor on their doubles.

Because in SC rules if any 2 points besides your feet touch the ground, you will lost that round. If you touch one knee on the ground, the moment that you touch any of your hands, that will be "2 points besides the feet". SC emphasizes maintaining mobility (It may have to do with ancient battle field "hit and run" strategy). If you have

- 1 hand and 1 knee, or
- 2 hands, or
- 2 knees

touch the ground, your mobility is gone. The rule is for "sport" and has nothing to do with "combat".

Here is the last match of that movie. A match between Chinese SC guy and Japanese Judo guy.

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/S3X9Or8rJEg/

[Frost]

Because in SC rules if any 2 points besides your feet touch the ground, you will lost that round. If you touch one knee on the ground, the moment that you touch any of your hands, that will be "2 points besides the feet". SC emphasizes maintaining mobility (It may have to do with ancient battle field "hit and run" strategy). If you have

- 1 hand and 1 knee, or
- 2 hands, or
- 2 knees

touch the ground, your mobility is gone. The rule is for "sport" and has nothing to do with "combat".

Here is the last match of that movie. A match between Chinese SC guy and Japanese Judo guy.

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/S3X9Or8rJEg/

and if you dont allow your knee to touch then you would consider leg attacks to be secondary in nature and concentrate as a style more on upper body tie ups and throws, trips etc so now i understand where you come from when you talk about leg attacks and shots in MMA, its not something your style of grappling uses so its not really something you would consider that effective, or any more effective than tie ups etc

[bawang]

wrestling in asia has huge differences in rules. its hard to define what is effective and realistic because folk competition is a contest of manliness not effectiveness

the main reason is crowds like watching standing up. on the chinese stage if u go to the ground the crowd literally cant see u.

if u talk about effectivenes spiking the head is allowed in old chinese wrestling that gives advantage to standup wrestling

[YouKnowWho]

wrestling in asia has huge differences in rules.

Mongolian wrestling rules:

The object of a match is to get your opponent to touch his upper body, knee or elbow to the ground. In the Inner Mongolian version, any body part other than the feet touching the ground signals defeat.[4] There are no weight classes or time limits in a match. Each wrestler must wrestle once per round, the winners moving on to the next round.

The technical rules between the Mongolian version and what is found in Inner Mongolia have some divergence. In both versions a variety of throws, trips and lifts are employed to topple the opponent. "The Inner Mongolians may not touch their opponent's legs with their hands", whereas, in Mongolia, grabbing your opponent's legs is legal. In addition, striking, strangling or locking is illegal in both varieties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wB6WISba5M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o21UWYy-5IQ

In Yi wrestling, you can only win by force your opponent's shoulder to touch the ground.

[Lucas]

What are the main difference in SC for sport Vs. SC for combat? Without the rule, is there more emphasis on different technique or method, shooting leg grab/attack, etc.???

[YouKnowWho]

What are the main difference in SC for sport Vs. SC for combat? Without the rule, is there more emphasis on different technique or method, shooting leg grab/attack, etc.???

IMO, there are at least 3 different strategies (there are more).

1. You will use the same technique but in different way. For example when you apply "切(Qie) - front cut", if you move

- behind your opponent, you will throw him.
- toward your opponent and drop (like sacrisfice throw), you will hurt his knee joint.

2. Sometime you will throw your opponent "1/2 way". Since your opponent cannot rotate his body in full circle and have safe break fall, his body may rotate 1/2 way and then has the airplane crashing effect (head first).

3. Of course in combat there are following on striking such as:

- knee to the groin, chest, ...
- elbow on the chest, throat, ...
- ...

so you have to be aware of exactly where you want your opponnet to be so you can "continue your task after your throw".