I thought I might just add my ten pence worth here because I have heard something worth mentioning. Albeit just rumours or folklore, but it does make some kind of sense to me.
Hung Gun Biu 'may have been' the family name of Hung Hei Goon, who is credited with formalizing and spreading the art of Hung Gar. Therefore, he was a direct student of Jee Shim and it is also believed that these two Martial Artists sought refuge on the Red Boats.
http://www.hungkuen.net/masters-hungheigoon.htm
From my own research I can also say that the pole form I practise originated with one of Hung Hei Goons martial brothers who shared his knowledge of pole plays with people on the Red Boats, filtering down to Leung Yee Tai who Ip Family claim as the source of Wing Chun 6 point and half pole. He is also known to have lived in the same street as Wong Wah Bo and they both taught Leung Jan together in a 'new' martial art when they retired from the Red Boats.
The 'idea' of this union was made famous by the movie Prodigal Son.
All of this also points this specific lineage to Shaolin (if only briefly!) since Jee Shim is said to have taught Hung Hei Goon while he was staying at the Southern temple, perhaps again just a 'pit stop' to seek refuge. And on all counts I am really only talking of my connection regarding pole plays. It is common knowledge that the 6 1/2 pole was 'inherited' from another style, and it is Hung Gar that was more prominent with the pole in those days as far as I'm aware. It simply makes sense, no?
I also find it very interesting that from people in Hung Kuen I have talked to there seemed to be a big divide in people practising the short and long bridge systems, even going as far to suggest that the short bridge system was lost, especailly after Wong Fei Hung become very very famous throughout China. Due to his tall, slim build he perpetuated the long bridge system.
Now I'm not saying that this is fact, but again it makes sense that Wing Chun must have existed prior to the Red Boats and may have been very heavily influenced by Hung Gar practitioners whilst on the Red Boats. This too adds to the mystery as Hung Gar is also known for its many forms and sets and especially it's way of transmitting knowledge through kuit, or martial poems. All of which seems very intriguing since I have yet to see evidence of the kuit existing before the Red Boats, and during this time maybe the 'Original' Wing Chun received an overhaul and one form became three and other two man sets and loose hand techniques were also introduced.
Just something to reflect on and needs some more serious research too imho, especially because I really know very little about anything before the Red Boat as this too is very strongly represented in my own learning due to my Sifu and his family being one of the last troupes of Canton Opera performers and musicians to 'see' some of the older generations practising in the fields on the New Territories in HK! I also found some great information on Hung Kuen in their own family museum which is based in the same ancestral park as Ip Mans Tong in Foshan/Fatsan. The Ip Family were granted the space because of the close relationship between the two styles.
Well, that's my New Year gift to you all!
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Originally Posted by Hendrik
