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Thread: Another look at Wing Chun History/Mystery

  1. #31

    Fwiw

    On ISBN:


    Any publisher can just fill out a form and get an ISBN number. An ISBN number has little to do
    with the accuracy of a book"s content. Lots of self published books have ISBN numbers.

    In the scholarly world academic (not commercial) presses send manuscripts to anonymous teams of experts in the field. Even then there can be "politics" in the publication process.

    joy chaudhuri

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    On ISBN:


    Any publisher can just fill out a form and get an ISBN number. An ISBN number has little to do
    with the accuracy of a book"s content. Lots of self published books have ISBN numbers.

    In the scholarly world academic (not commercial) presses send manuscripts to anonymous teams of experts in the field. Even then there can be "politics" in the publication process.

    joy chaudhuri
    Joy,

    Thanks and appreciate for your input. You know best in this field.

  3. #33
    So the majority of you think the "rebels" on the red junks didn't learn any kung fu before learning from "leung bak sao". All the years before they were operating they didn't bother too learn anything else? really?

    Ban Chung opera had so much kung fu which is well known and documented by others.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    On ISBN:


    Any publisher can just fill out a form and get an ISBN number. An ISBN number has little to do
    with the accuracy of a book"s content. Lots of self published books have ISBN numbers.

    In the scholarly world academic (not commercial) presses send manuscripts to anonymous teams of experts in the field. Even then there can be "politics" in the publication process.

    joy chaudhuri
    Joy,

    While there are certainly drawbacks to the publishing world and process, there is more quality control and source checking in that world than there is in say for example, an online forum such as this, or even Wikipedia.

    For books that are published by someone other than themselves such as a publishing company, which is the context of what I was talking about, this is certainly true.

    Or is your point that when you see a source that has an ISBN, we should ignore that and instead go with the opinions of random posters in online interest group forums because they say they have facts and evidence?

    Commercial presses tend to hire someone with credentials in the field that the book is being written in and pay a standard small fee for content editing. They do this to verify the quality of their content as it represents an investment.

    Academic textbooks on the other hand many times represent some of the worst in the publishing industry. There is a lot more politics, price gouging, and similar on that side of it.

    Please clarify what exactly you're getting at here.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by FongSung View Post
    So the majority of you think the "rebels" on the red junks didn't learn any kung fu before learning from "leung bak sao". All the years before they were operating they didn't bother too learn anything else? really?

    Ban Chung opera had so much kung fu which is well known and documented by others.
    No I think the red boats were probably rich exchange centers, much like the Shaolin temples earlier. The Rennnaisance period spilled over to following times and the rule of the Qing most likely forced that kind of exchange heightened in the Ming dynasty underground in later times.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Joy,

    While there are certainly drawbacks to the publishing world and process, there is more quality control and source checking in that world than there is in say for example, an online forum such as this, or even Wikipedia.

    For books that are published by someone other than themselves such as a publishing company, which is the context of what I was talking about, this is certainly true.

    Or is your point that when you see a source that has an ISBN, we should ignore that and instead go with the opinions of random posters in online interest group forums because they say they have facts and evidence?

    Commercial presses tend to hire someone with credentials in the field that the book is being written in and pay a standard small fee for content editing. They do this to verify the quality of their content as it represents an investment.

    Academic textbooks on the other hand many times represent some of the worst in the publishing industry. There is a lot more politics, price gouging, and similar on that side of it.

    Please clarify what exactly you're getting at here.


    one of the author of this book --- Mastering Kung Fu : Featuring Shaolin Wing Chun


    http://newwestminster.bibliocommons....olin_wing_chun


    just changes his mind and make a public announcement of his new finding.



    "Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Paai in their position that their lineage traces back to time period Hung Gun Biu, and has nothing to do with the flag system based secret societies that came out of the Shaolin Temple.

    There is published evidence from many researchers in the 1800s, 1900s, and 2000s supporting the existence of the flag system in the founding of the Hung Men.

    The VTM will no longer promote the Hung Fa Yi system under the umbrella term of Shaolin Wing Chun,

    and will no longer state that this lineage traces its origins directly back to the origins of Wing Chun in the Southern Shaolin Temple, and is – instead – the creation of one person: Si Jo Hung Gun Biu."

    http://mengsmartialarts.com/forum/in...pic,980.0.html



    The Shao Lin Wing Chun in the title of the book is no longer true? or can the other author back up his Shao Lin Wing Chun claim and keep the title of the book ?



    So how credible is this book with its ISBN?
    and where is the quality of the information verify by which experts in the field which cant even sustain up to a decade.

    Can anyone qoute this book to expect a credible information?
    Last edited by Hendrik; 12-20-2010 at 10:04 PM.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    So how credible is this book with its ISBN? and where is the quality of the information verify by which experts in the field which cant even sustain up to a decade.
    Even with all that it still is quite a bit more credible than someone posting random threads on the Internet such as yourself.

    And besides, quit spreading misinformation. VTM still concludes a shaolin connection. The quote was in response to HFY saying their oral tradition doesn't involve any flags at all.

    Also, the post was a question to Joy, not you.
    Last edited by Wayfaring; 12-20-2010 at 10:09 PM.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Even with all that it still is quite a bit more credible than someone posting random threads on the Internet such as yourself.

    And besides, quit spreading misinformation. VTM still concludes a shaolin connection. The quote was in response to HFY saying their oral tradition doesn't involve any flags at all.

    Also, the post was a question to Joy, not you.

    Sure, your logic.


    As for my posts, I always supports the red boat WCK ancestors' teaching for past decades.

    and even one of the author of that Mastering kung fu Book, now go with the Ancestors teaching which I share, after his research, White Crane of Fujian is a mother art of Fujian.

    That is how credible or how not credible on the Ancestors' teaching.





    As for your arguement of
    VTM still concludes a shaolin connection. The quote was in response to HFY saying their oral tradition doesn't involve any flags at all.
    nice try.


    let see,

    The VTM will no longer promote the Hung Fa Yi system under the umbrella term of Shaolin Wing Chun,

    and will no longer state that this lineage traces its origins directly back to the origins of Wing Chun in the Southern Shaolin Temple, and is – instead – the creation of one person: Si Jo Hung Gun Biu."
    isnt it you are the master of English language? now you cant read?


    Who is Hung Gun Biu? according to VTM that is his creation, not Shao Lin Temple, so to be accurate, it is Hung Gun Biu Wing Chun not Shao lin Wing Chun isnt it?

    Where is your team mate that Arizona guy, the WWB expert, now Why dont him tell us is Hung Gun Biu comes before or after WWB? according to his three sets theory Hung Gun Biu must come after WWB-LJ ? Please enlightent us.






    Joy or me what is the different? your ISBN credibility stuffs doesnt hold and this is a solid example.

    With the addresing from VTM, The book's title needs to change to Hung Gun Biu Wing Chun not Shao Lin Wing Chun which is misleading.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 12-20-2010 at 10:34 PM.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    As for my posts, I always supports the red boat WCK ancestors' teaching for past decades.
    ...

    Who is Hung Gun Biu?
    A red boat WCK ancestor. So now practice what you preach and show proper support.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    A red boat WCK ancestor. So now practice what you preach and show proper support.
    Wait a minute, what is his real name?

    WWB, LYT, YK, CS..... who were in the list are real name but no Hung Gun Biu sorry.

    if you have his real name I will support, otherwise is this person real or like Ng Mui ?

    since he is teaching with 3 sets, he must be post WWB -LJ era no wonder there is no knowledge on the one long set? but that is you and your Arizona team mate's job to find out.


    and how credible is a nick name? tell us, isnt it in your previous post you are totally against Ng Mui...etc and request for real name real person....etc? now it is your time to provide us all the real stuffs as you demand. Again, Wang Wah Bo, Leung Yi Tai, Yik Kam, Cho Soon were all real name and real person you need to get a real identifiable person to get into the list.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 12-20-2010 at 10:46 PM.

  11. #41
    Confucius says "What you do not wish for yourself, do not do to others."

    There is lots of truth in the saying, one doesnt know when the wind blown in other direction.


    Yee or rigtheousness in Chinese means to give a room to others so that others can live in comfort instead of critical and self-rigtheousness to press the other to death.


    These are very Chinese traditional and most in the West doesnt understand this culture and doesnt practice it. However that is a part of Wu De.

    May be this is the time for all of us start to learn these old tradition.

    Here I sign off from this thread. So long.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 12-20-2010 at 11:04 PM.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Joy,


    Or is your point that when you see a source that has an ISBN, we should ignore that and instead go with the opinions of random posters in online interest group forums because they say they have facts and evidence?
    ((That is not what I said. I merely pointed out that having an ISBN number says little about the quality of the content.Also, I usually returned student papers as being unacceptable if they depended on Wikipedia or net chats as the main authoritative sources.I read extensively and make up my own mind on what I read. Ever so often on the net one can get an insight into something on a subject of interest...that is worth cross checking or trying out experimentally.
    When it comes to contemporary martial arts however-the published works have poorer standards than in several other fields. And- contemporary wing chun "literature" is pretty poor. The art is greater than it's literature by far.)))joy

    Commercial presses tend to hire someone with credentials in the field that the book is being written in and pay a standard small fee for content editing. They do this to verify the quality of their content as it represents an investment.

    ((The world of commerce values marketability and possible profit above other values. Note your choice of words...investment"))joy

    Academic textbooks on the other hand many times represent some of the worst in the publishing industry. There is a lot more politics, price gouging, and similar on that side of it.

    ((In academia- publishing a text book is not the height of scholarship. But atleast at a university level individual faculty pick the texts. In the high schools individual teachers have little discretion
    on what textbooks can be used. Note the recent controversy on what would be acceptable content in Texas schools regarding history.University Presses which generally do not mass produce textbooks usually have non commercial standards-though they too face pressures in this economy))joy

    Please clarify what exactly you're getting at here.
    ((Getting at? I only pointed out that having an ISBN number has little to do with the quality of the content.Most threads on this forum quickly go astray and I was not getting at anything else.))joy
    joy chaudhuri

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    I just wanted to say how interesting this particular thread is becoming as I'm seeing more 'new' members (?) who have clear information about their Wing Chun origins that actually sound very similar to the Lee Shing family I belong to....

    A good little thread imho full of good first-hand information, for once...
    Hmmm! I take that back as it's become a bit of a "handbags at dawn" experience.
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Hmmm! I take that back as it's become a bit of a "handbags at dawn" experience.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Second thoughts have their strengths!

    joy chaudhuri

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Even VTM today has already confirm the White Crane of fujian connection
    Hendrik Santos, now you believe VTM and give credibility to VTM. Hendrik feeling good that VTM confirms his-story.

    had a lengthy discussion with the Grand Master, Sifu Ku Choi Wah, from Malaysia, his lineage was part of the Cho Ga Wing Chun, also sometimes referred to as Opera Wing Chun. He is the current, leading authority of this branch. I also met Sifu Tony Yap Yew Wei of the same Cho Ga lineage, but a different branch from Sifu Ku….
    … people who don’t always know a lot seem to be the ones that speak the most, or make the most noise online. Sifu Ku mentioned to me about one particular person by name in the US that has been making a lot of noise and presenting himself as an expert on the Cho Ga lineage but really don’t know all that much about the lineage itself. http://mengsmartialarts.com/forum/in...p?topic=1002.0
    But there a problem, based on VTM writing, Benny Meng has different opinion of you than approving of you.
    aka black flag wing chun: Black Flag Eng Chun = Black Flag Wing Chun = HKB = HKB Black Flag Eng Chun = HKB Wing Chun = Lohan Black Flag =
    Ngo Cho Kun + Wing Chun: Ngo Cho Ving Tsun (Indonesia) = Ngo Cho Eng Chun (USA) = Ngo Cho Wing Chun (Japan)
    king of aka: Kenneth Salim (Indonesia) = Kenneth Lim (Japan) = Kenneth Lin (USA arrival) = Lin Xiang Fuk (USA - present)

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