Hence the term "Legend" not "History" in my earlier post.
Registered User
Hence the term "Legend" not "History" in my earlier post.
Registered User
Originally Posted by Wayfaring
Because my WCK is live, and I present live as it is as how I found them to be.
Live comes with sentiment, emotion, awareness,......etc
Like a new born baby, live exist without needs to be superficially dress up or social requirement.
Zen, Buddhism, Daoism all is about return to nature and lively like spring.
and Spring doesnt needs to be published it is coming even this is winter.
Some days when you are capable to go beyond the realm of thoughts then you can see my realm. before that you are totally right in that realm of thought.
So, the ultimate question is what is your WCK? a tool? that is perfectly ok with me. But mine is live itself thus mine is not subject to your mind set.
Zen is needed to go beyond the realm of thought to see the original face of life.
Last edited by Hendrik; 12-22-2010 at 02:42 PM.
Banned
No, WCK can only be live or alive when you are using it, i.e., fighting. It is the same with any martial art or any athletic activity. Your boxing is only alive when you are boxing, your surfing is only alive when you are surfing. If you are not DOING it, how can it be alive?
Your whole "realm of thought" nonsense is misplaced.
Registered User
You are exactly right thinking within your "realm of thought".
Registered User
When a man tries to convince himself and others of his own enlightenment while not being enlightened, he leads himself in circles.
Describing your emotions as a "lively spring" and a higher form of Zen is like that.
The little anger responses, attachments, displays are not the 4 sublime states of metaa, karunaa, muditaa, upekhaa. Perhaps you should reflect upon refining your path.
But then again I'm not a Buddhist.
Registered User
Who talks about enlightement? have you enlightent yet? Do you know how?When a man tries to convince himself and others of his own enlightenment while not being enlightened, he leads himself in circles.
Who talks about higher form of Zen?Describing your emotions as a "lively spring" and a higher form of Zen is like that.
Emotion is a lively spring for every human beings because emotion is the expression of the lower three chakras.
Zen is balance of top three chakras with the lower three chakras via the heart chakra.
How could one practice Zen without acknowledge and value the lower three chakras?
Impossible.
The little anger responses, attachments, displays are not the 4 sublime states of metaa, karunaa, muditaa, upekhaa. Perhaps you should reflect upon refining your path.
Any healty baby can get angry, that is nature.
metaa, karunaa, muditaa, upekhaa are just a different description of love where all human naturally practice and capable of. When a child lovingly caress his loving pet that's it. There is nothing sublime at all.
Buddha himself speak of sila of not killing, does that means attachments?
Those who keep preaching Wing Chun Kuen is from Shao Lin and and the Shao Lin monk create WCK to anti or Kill the Qing with Zen is the true attachment to ignorant or and hatret; not mention it violates the buddha's teaching of Karuna. That is a fact of serious attachement and promoting an evil path according to Sila of no killing.
Buddhist or not it doesnt matter. Spring can be called different name but spring is always spring.But then again I'm not a Buddhist.
Last edited by Hendrik; 12-22-2010 at 06:02 PM.
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When anger does possess a man;
He looks ugly; he lies in pain;
What benefit he may come by
He misconstrues as a mischance;
He loses property (through fines)
Because he has been working harm
Through acts of body and speech
By angry passion overwhelmed;
The wrath and rage that madden him
Gain him a name of ill-repute;
His fellows, relatives and kin
Will seek to shun him from afar;
And anger fathers misery:
This fury does so cloud the mind
Of man that he cannot discern
This fearful inner danger.
An angry man no meaning knows,
No angry man sees the Dhamma,
So wrapped in darkness, as if blind,
Is he whom anger dogs.
Someone a man in anger hurts;
But, when his anger is later spent
With difficulty or with ease,
He suffers as if seared by fire.
His look betrays the sulkiness
Of some dim smoky smoldering glow.
Whence may flare up an anger-blaze
That sets the world of men aflame.
He has no shame or conscience curb,
No kindly words come forth from him,
There is no island refuge for
The man whom anger dogs.
Such acts as will ensure remorse,
Such as are far from the true Dhamma:
It is of these that I would tell,
So harken to my words.
Anger makes man a parricide,
Anger makes him a matricide,
Anger can make him slay the saint
As he would kill the common man.
Nursed and reared by a mother's care,
He comes to look upon the world,
Yet the common man in anger kills
The being who gave him life.
No being but seeks his own self's good,
None dearer to him than himself,
Yet men in anger kill themselves,
Distraught for reasons manifold:
For crazed they stab themselves with daggers,
In desperation swallow poison,
Perish hanged by ropes, or fling
Themselves over a precipice.
Yet how their life-destroying acts
Bring death unto themselves as well,
That they cannot discern, and that
Is the ruin anger breeds.
This secret place, with anger's aid,
Is where mortality sets the snare.
To blot it out with discipline,
With vision, strength, and understanding,
To blot each fault out one by one,
The wise man should apply himself,
Training likewise in the true Dhamma;
"Let smoldering be far from us."
Then rid of wrath and free from anger,
And rid of lust and free from envy,
Tamed, and with anger left behind,
Taintless, they reach Nibbana.
- The Angutarra Nikaya
You sound confused. I know of nobody who this describes, certainly none in my WCK family.Those who keep preaching Wing Chun Kuen is from Shao Lin and and the Shao Lin monk create WCK to anti or Kill the Qing with Zen is the true attachment to ignorant or and hatret; not mention it violates the buddha's teaching of Karuna. That is a fact of serious attachement and promoting an evil path according to Sila of no killing.
Registered User
When anger does possess a man;
- The Angutarra Nikaya
Classical case of living in the upper 3 chakras and trying to eliminate the lower 3 chakras.
Is it like trying to deny sexual desire. one cannot deny anger, because it is a part of human. it serves a purpose.
Even the Boddhisatva of Compassionate, Kannon has a angry face.
Fudo Myoo is an angry Buddha
http://www.buddhamuseum.com/fudo-myoo-bronze_90.html
Anger doesnt possess a man. man choose to hold on anger ignorantly.
Anger is a nature phenomenon all living being has.
I just state a famous case in WCK world marketing and you are so fast to clarify yourself. are you confuse or am I confuse?You sound confused. I know of nobody who this describes, certainly none in my WCK family.
Registered (L)user
When a man tries to convince himself and others of his own enlightenment while not being enlightened, he leads himself in circles.Enlightenment may be another illusory goal to mislead the impressionable.Who talks about enlightement? have you enlightent yet? Do you know how?
The unenlightened can often correctly judge a charlatan or bullsh!t artist when they see one. Even dogs can sometimes do that.
If enlightenment is rare or difficult to attain, then the probabilities are that the majority of those who claim knowledge of it or how to reach it are con artists. Beware of such people.
Skip the emotional blackmail and baiting, you have the desire but not the talent.I just state a famous case in WCK world marketing and you are so fast to clarify yourself. are you confuse or am I confuse?
Last edited by anerlich; 12-22-2010 at 07:11 PM.
"Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
"We are all one" - Genki Sudo
"We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
"Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander
WC Academy BJJ/MMA Academy Surviving Violent Crime TCM Info
Don't like my posts? Challenge me!
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Enlightenment may be another illusory goal to mislead the impressionable.
The unenlightened can often correctly judge a charlatan or bullsh!t artist when they see one. Even dogs can sometimes do that.
If enlightenment is rare or difficult to attain, then the probabilities are that the majority of those who claim knowledge of it or how to reach it are con artists. Beware of such people.
Work on continuous to realize what one didnt realize and expanding instead of Enlightenment which who knows what it is.
man falling into his own trap that is one's own choice.Skip the emotional blackmail and baiting, you have the desire but not the talent.
Registered (L)user
Follow your own advice, I think you're in greater need of it than I.Work on continuous to realize what one didnt realize and expanding instead of Enlightenment which who knows what it is.
"Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
"We are all one" - Genki Sudo
"We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
"Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander
WC Academy BJJ/MMA Academy Surviving Violent Crime TCM Info
Don't like my posts? Challenge me!
Registered User
Andrew
Advice is something he only takes when it supports his own agenda.... and fans his pseuodo academic ego..........
Glenn
Junior Member
Just checking into this thread again. After reading last 2 pages I am confused . Not sure what this thread is about anymore.
Seems to become about Mr. Hendrik. Why is a thread about history now a thread about Mr Hendrik person. Can you not discuss history and a message with out attacking a messenger.
If you do not agree with a history or a theory presented please give alternative so a discussion can be done. Attacking a person never leads to any progress. For progress must present alternative view and present what evidence you have to support your view. If no evidence just a belief that is ok to. religion is like that too. Just say its a belief but attacking others is counter productive.
Junior Member
For me I have always found it curious that Wing Chun, Chu/Chow gar(southern Mantis) and Bai mei also share an overall general creation story( martial Monk of some kind developed new advance system. All three appear in history around the same time, mid 1800's. All three have ties to same people(boat people) and same home area. All 3 share same general combat objectives and general concepts. All 3 have clear White crane as a base art that was modified,changed,added to merged with,improved.
Is it possible that an answer to history questions might be found in where all 3 arts come from?
Registered User
Here is what I think.
1, The root of all these art seems to derivation from White crane of Fujian.
However, White crane got its art from Ming Military or the follower of Gen Qi Chi-Kuang who reform the Chinese military art and martial art. it is not from shao lin because if one check the history at that period of time where Gen Qi Chi-kuang reform Shao Lin is name for pole but not fist.
So, this type of technology is much more likely from Fan Tze instead of Shao Lin if one take a look at Fan Tze.
Thus, IMHO, the source of White Crane is not Shao LIn but Ming Military art which is using against the Japanese pirate invation successfully around the coast.
2, Chu gar southern mantis is said to be created by Dong Chan or painfull Zen a Ming Royal decendent who hide in Shao Lin temple, who group for anti qing, later return to layman life, and was tracking down by Qing. He belongs to a different group then the Hung Mun who fleet to Taiwan. passed away without achieve much.
Thus, in the Alta or Taiwan Hung Mun, there is White Crane of Fujian's ancestor but no Dong Chan.
3, Dong Chan is where the story of the Royal Ming decendent or the Anti Qing martial art creation in Shao LIn from. White Crane is a different story and travel different path which link direct to the military from the begining with people like Chen Cin Nan or Gen. Chen Chen-Kung of Taiwan. So these belong to different party. Thus, White Crane of fujian landed in Taiwan big time but Dong Chan's himself not.
4, There are creation from different era.
Ei. the 1630 the creation of White Crane era, and after that.
Chu Ga component of White Crane could be from White crane or Ming Left over Military personal direct if it was created in 1650;
or Chu Ga is actually a creation of other then Dong Chan using White Crane platform since White Crane dominate big part of southern china after 1680.
SLT the long set, IMHO, from my tracking is created around 1730, in Kui Lin by Miu Shun after meeting with the Hung Mun white crane person code name Ng Mui. this person is more likely to be the second generation of White Crane of fujian instead of Fang Chi-Niang herself. SLT uniqueness is the snake engine which is a Soft type of White Crane evolution compare with the Hard White Crane of 1700.
You can check what I post above with different TCMA history and chinese history.
Last edited by Hendrik; 12-23-2010 at 10:26 AM.
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