BJJ - Techniques

[Watchman]

>>>>>Hope that helps.-ED<<<<<

Thanks GSD.

Here's the follow-up question: from a streetfighting standpoint, what sorts of things do you do to insure, firstly, your superior position (basically, what do you do to get into position without getting your teeth knocked out)?

Also, harking back to another question: what are common mistakes that someone makes to give up position on the fight's initial engagement, and what do you do to capitalize on them?

[Merryprankster]

Watchman, I hope you don't mind if I take a stab at this. Same with you GSD. I don't want step on toes.

To ensure that I don't get my teeth knocked out before I get into my range--grappling--, I'd to set up the clinch with strikes. Even a poorly thrown punch or kick will often open up somebody to a grab. It doesn't have to be pretty, but you want to make sure you are getting into them, ruining the distance needed to strike properly.

Personally, my favorite combo for taking a shot is to push kick, then throw a thai style round kick. Then, instead of returning my kicking leg to the ground, I just put it down and shoot a single. I think I mentioned that once before.

If you want to upper body clinch for a throw, you can jab your way in, just like you would anyway (while keeping an eye out for kicks, knees, etc), and then clinch for a throw.

If the attacker kicks, you can always move into grappling range with a kick catch or some similar type of manuever. Not always easy, but it works often enough to at least get you close.

Watchman, it just occurred to me... did you want transitions from stand up to ground? Or how exactly did you mean all this?

[Watchman]

MP, thanks for the answer.

Yeah, I'm wondering about transitions to the ground. I'm assuming there is more of a science to it than just grabbing a guy, taking him down, and HOPING you land in some sort of good position.

How do you work the transition from standup to ground? How do you ensure that when you effect the takedown that you're going to end up where you want to be once both of you are down? Then, once you've got the initial position, how do you get "positional dominance" to start raining down the blows?

[Merryprankster]

Wow!

Geez... huge topic!

I mean... every wrestling take down is pretty much designed so that you land "on top," so to speak. There are a slew of takedowns and a slew of counters.

The things i mentioned still stand, as far as moving from stand up to clinch/takedown, but as far as learning to land in a dominant position, here are a couple of things...

With shots and leg attacks you are going to land "on top" more often than not. Simply because of the nature of the beast, it's hard not to. However, to maintain control, work up the legs to your opponents hips as quickly as you can. Hip control is essential to maintaining control of your opponent on the ground. Ideally, you want to land outside his guard, but you can still strike from inside the guard and avoid submissions. Remember that most people don't know anything about the guard, so even if you are inside his legs, you will probably be okay if you are on top.

To practice this putting somebody on their back and you OUTSIDE their guard, when you shoot doubles with your training partner, simply rotate their body as you dump them. Whatever side your head is on, dump the OPPOSITE way, and hold on tight. You'll see what I mean when you do it. Keep your weight on them... arms hugging the hips/legs in tight to your chest, and your weight ON the legs or hips. Then work up their body for a better "pinning" type position from where you can hurt them more easily.

With upper body throws, there is a chance of overrotation that leads to a "re-roll." You initiated the attack, but now you are on the bottom. Judo guys have a problem with this, because they fight for ippon... it doesn't matter if I re-roll, you get the win for throwing me to my back. With throws, learn to settle them. My favorite drill for this is to do a common hip toss, o-goshi, head and arm throw, whatever you want to call it, and once you have the guy over your hips and tilted, learn to drive the knee closest to their head into the mat, and then SIT before your knee touches. Instead of a heavy rotation, you've got a more direct line to the ground. It keeps them from rerolling you. Adjust your position to a more secure one once on the ground. These throws are termed "sagging" in wrestling, for obvious reasons.

For a fight, my positional dominance series would be takedown, crossmount/mount depending, knee on belly.

I like knee on belly because it is a fairly effective pin, and you can strike with great leverage, but affords you the ability to get up and RUN very easily, if 100 screaming midgets come out of nowhere and want to kill you. Also, when people are getting pounded on from the knee on bell position, they often immediately turn away and give their backs, which gives you all sorts of control and submission options. Also, as you get better, you'll find it's very easy to transition from one side to the other with knee on belly, even if the guy rolls completely through.

[Watchman]

Ah! So the knee on belly allows you to keep the opponent pinned while keeping the opportunity to disengage because you aren't fully committing your weight?

[GinSueDog]

Watchman,
The knee on belly also can be turned into a submission easily too by driving the knee into the solar plexus. It will work as long as you have control of your opponent's head. I think what Merryprankster suggested pretty much sums it up though. Just think of yourself as a big boa constrictor, you want to stay in tight to your opponent, giving him no room to breath. BTW, the knee ride hurts and is one of the positions I hate to be on the receiving end of whether it is drilling or sparring.-ED

"The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist

[Knifefighter]

I didn’t know this part of the forum existed, but now that I have found it, I guess I will jump in with my two cents worth. By the way, I think Gin Sue Dog does a great job of answering grappling questions. He trains at a great school under a great instructor.

As far as how many techniques are in BJJ, yes new ones are being developed all the time. I don’t know know how many there are but I keep notes on all the techniques I have learned. So far, at purple belt level, I have about 1,300 in my file.

Here’s one of my favorite combos to transition from outside range to clinch to ground:
Muay Thai low round kick followed with cross and hook combo to the face. From here, I move to the Muay Thai plum position and throw some knees up the middle. Then I slide one hand from behind the neck and down the arm while the other arm goes under the other arm and I drop down to a fireman’s throw/takedown. Getting this takedown usually lets me avoid the guard and gain side control relatively easily.

The biggest mistake that I have found people make on the ground is not to defend the mount adequately or at all.

You’re right about the knee ride, but not so much because of your weight (as a matter of fact a good knee ride requires you to drive most of your weight onto your knee and down into your opponent). The knee ride gives you more mobility because you are already upright on one foot and your other knee. This lets you pop up to your feet really quickly if you need to. While it is not quite as secure as the mount or the side mount, it really gives you a lot of options regarding what you want to do next. As a matter of fact, my favorite follow up to a mount for the street is to throw a few punches first in the mount and then move to the knee ride.

[Watchman]

>>>>>The biggest mistake that I have found people make on the ground is not to defend the mount adequately or at all.<<<<<

Do you mean they don't defend against you transitioning into getting a mount once you've slammed them, or they don't know what the hell to do (other than absorb punches) WHEN you get the mount?

[Knifefighter]

I mean they let me move from side mount or knee ride directly into the mount where I have an even bigger advantage.

[GinSueDog]

Knifefighter,
You should compete at Chris' next tournament. He holds one every other month. We normally get a few pretty good guys from the other academies that show up. There is normally first the no gi tournament followed the next day by a gi tournament.-ED

[Knifefighter]

GSD:
I did his last tourney, but I didn't want to do this one as I was doing a Pancrase fight the next week.

[rogue]

What do you guys think of blue belts teaching? I've had several BJJ instructors and all but one were blues.

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

[Merryprankster]

Watchman,

Yeah, your weight is buried in their body on a knee on belly. I'm flexible, so it doesn't bother me QUITE as much as some, but it still sucks. The mobility, as knifefighter pointed out, comes from one leg being out and away.

Rogue,

I think that instruction from good instructors should be your main goal. A blue belt can be a good instructor. His technique range may be limited, and his execution may be not quite the same as a black, but that doesn't mean he or she doesn't understand or can't teach the movements. There have been TONS of great coaches in many sports who couldn't execute the way the very top guys could, but knew how to teach, and that, I think is key.

Just remember that the blue belt probably won't be quite the storehouse of knowledge, and I think you'll be ok.

In any event, you can always test what you are being taught by competing! If it works consistently, and you win matches often enough, then SOMETHING's right! Just my thoughts :)

[Ford Prefect]

Hey Ed,

I'm gonna be in Costa Mesa this November for a week or two. Do you know what Chris's private and single group lessons cost? I want to check out Next Generation, Gracie Torrance, Machado Torrance, and Iha's place. Heh. Hoping to have a busy week!

[Knifefighter]

Ford:
If you get bored and need some more places to train, here are some more ideas for you:
Caique's- 190th & Figuroa in Gardena
Bob Bass- 8th & PCH in Hermosa Beach
RAW- ElSegundo