The Japanese perception of martial arts.

[The Xia]

Does anyone that has been, or is, in Japan know how they are viewed there? I heard that CMA is seen as exotic, Judo, Kendo and Koryu arts are highly respected, and Karate is seen as freaky (in a circus type way) or even as a gangster sort of thing.

[Sifu Darkfist]

i have not been, however i can say from the information given to me directly by my master that GM Su Yu Chang is highly respected there( both spend time there on occasion). he has a school and is considered the top NPM Shiyue by most that know him in that country.

THere is respect for the most violent of Chinese arts (makes you wonder the historical influence).

[YiLiQuan1]

i have not been, however i can say from the information given to me directly by my master that GM Su Yu Chang is highly respected there( both spend time there on occasion). he has a school and is considered the top NPM Shiyue by most that know him in that country.

Who is he again? Never heard of him... Then again, I'm not a mantis guy, nor am I inclined toward mantis styles of any kind, so I doubt I'd even travel in circles where people might know him.

Where is his school located?

THere is respect for the most violent of Chinese arts (makes you wonder the historical influence).

You're listening to the wrong people...

Does anyone that has been, or is, in Japan know how they are viewed there? I heard that CMA is seen as exotic, Judo, Kendo and Koryu arts are highly respected, and Karate is seen as freaky (in a circus type way) or even as a gangster sort of thing.

Westerners that haven't lived in Asia (and especially Americans, in my experience) have quite the romantic notion of the Far East and the relationship that martial arts has with the rest of the cultures in those countries...

Bottom line, martial arts in Japan are viewed in none too terribly different a way than they are in the US - you're weird if you do them, weirder still if it's your main hobby, even weirder still if it's your only hobby, and a complete flake if it's all you talk about.

CMA do enjoy a slightly higher interest level in Japan, with Japanese arts looked upon as "something Grandpa does in his spare time." Interest in shootfighting, MMA, K-1, Pride, etc., is much higher than it is in the traditional arts of Japan. Kind of like how Americans aren't as keen on Western MA as they are on the exotic, mystical arts of the East.

As far as Karate goes, the Japanese have never been overly keen on it... It's not Japanese, after all...

[Mr Punch]

Does anyone that has been, or is, in Japan know how they are viewed there? I heard that CMA is seen as exotic, Judo, Kendo and Koryu arts are highly respected, and Karate is seen as freaky (in a circus type way) or even as a gangster sort of thing.

Of course the following is a generalization but...:

Most people here don't know anything about MA.

I've been asked if aikido is Chinese, when it has one of the oldest remotely traceable roots of any modern Japanese MA: if its origins in koryu are to be believed it is in a group of a few arts that have NO PROVABLE origin in China, and even if not it is distinctly Japanese in flavour.

I've been asked if aikido is karate.

Some people have held aikido in the highest regard as a follow-on from koryu, some people think it's a cult, and most people who have heard of Ueshiba believe he was the ultimate bad-ass

(I met one old bum who said he served under Ueshiba in an infantry regiment and that he was known as 'the King of the Bayonet', and he even showed me some moves, though somewhat blurred through the ages, the DTs and the hypothermia - haven't checked if that was one of Ueshiba's epithets, and I have to say, it hadn't helped the poor guy at all - I had had to rescue him from a beating - just a story)

They know kendo is Japanese, Karate is Chinese in origin and probably came through Okinawa (this is based on what I most often, not what I think), Kyoukushin is for nutters (I suppose some would say gangsters but I don't think in general they believe gangsters need MA!) and is Japanese, and most people I've spoken to about kung fu who have known anything other than the bog-standard movie perception of Jackie Chan et al, think that as it is the origin of karate it's the same.

Because of the movie-fu, many people here immediately make the same wataa noises Westerners do when you mention kung fu and they think you should be abe to show them some superhuman powers. The difference is, if you do show them anything they listen politely and don't say, 'But what if I do this?'

I would say judo and kendo are the top of the respected in the Japanese heart list. I would also say that they are considered to be part of Japan, and that foreigners who do them must be good, no matter how many times they see them sucking! OTOH, even if you have a lowly shodan they compliment the ass off you, despite knowing that shodan is nothing. Mind you, they do that to other Japanese people too.

No matter how many times they see Akebono getting owned from whatever angle, they still believe sumo rikishi are bad-asses. So do I! They also secretly believe that despite some of the top Yokozuna being Mongolian, Hawaiian, Bulgarian, Russian etc nowadays, they are never as good as the Japanese rikishi. This is of course why Akebono gets owned.

The new wave of 'MMA' is respected by many. Assuming we're not talking sports fans and fight followers here most people also think:

BJJ is just JJ to them.

JJ is for nutters.

Judo beats all.

Boxers are hard.

Boxers beat all.

Thai boxers are hard/mad.

Strangely, only favourite (Japanese) Thai boxers beat all.

Eventually the Japanese win.

Chinese fighters are jeered with wataas in the ring, and sometimes more and indeed very racist comments by the fight fans: kung fu is not really considered a MA exceot by martial historians and a few karate people.

That's not to say that Sifu Darkfist's comment is incorrect. I don't know the guy he's talking about, but I know that one of the Chen family is a respected tai chi teacher near me... well a respected rep if not by those who've actually trained with him for any length of time. There are some respected Chinese MAists here.

I also know of at least one Japanese MAist who trains only Chinese MA with very deep connections to both the Yakuza and the Triads, and who regularly trains in China. I can't say he has the best rep, but some people say he's nails as a (street)fighter and I know he's been responsible for challenging and closing another kwoon.

[Mr Punch]

Bottom line, martial arts in Japan are viewed in none too terribly different a way than they are in the US - you're weird if you do them

Ahree that they're not treated too differently but don't agree with your last statement. It's very personal and different compared to who you talk to. You are much more likely to be gasped at in delight and awe in Japan than in the UK, dunno about US.

weirder still if it's your main hobby, even weirder still if it's your only hobby,

Don't think that's true at all. They really appreciate dedication and time in. Depends if you're a d1ckhead who likes wearing hachimaki to parties!

and a complete flake if it's all you talk about.

That's true!

CMA do enjoy a slightly higher interest level in Japan,

Nonsense in my experience. Chi kung is popular with old women and TV chi kung with some housewives, but not so many.

with Japanese arts looked upon as "something Grandpa does in his spare time."

Nah. Kyoukushin is very popular, although for nutters. Koryu people are definately 'erai' (accomplished and distinguished).

Interest in shootfighting, MMA, K-1, Pride, etc., is much higher than it is in the traditional arts of Japan. Kind of like how Americans aren't as keen on Western MA as they are on the exotic, mystical arts of the East.

Prob true.

As far as Karate goes, the Japanese have never been overly keen on it... It's not Japanese, after all...

True, which is why Kyoukushin and that kind are more popular.

[golden arhat]

i heard there are some pretty hard arsed xing yi teachers in japan

but other than that i know japan has wushu tourneys
(bushijutsu kai)

i saw a film of a jap boy band learning wushu on tv as if it was proper cma
lol it was funny when they saluted they kind of bowed at the waist while there fist and hand were pressed against there chest

[The Xia]

How do the Japanese view non-Kyokushin Karate and the people that practice them?

[golden arhat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ysmcFIoS9c

[The Xia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ysmcFIoS9c

Do those red-haired kids think they are bad mofos or something?

[The Xia]

ttt..............

[Anthony]

The Xia.....

The problem is that you're asking this question on a Martial Arts forum......HELLO!!!.....all martial arts fans here. Go to a Clay Aiken fan forum and ask them if the world thinks he's cool....they'll say yes.

but this is your answer.....


" - you're weird if you do them, weirder still if it's your main hobby, even weirder still if it's your only hobby, and a complete flake if it's all you talk about."


Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. Martial Artists are simply considered to be weirdos by the Japanese. That's the bottom line. Now let's all go nurse our bruised egos and get over it.

[Anthony]

Forget my last post. What I meant to say was that if you put on a Karate Gi (or any other MA uniform) your'e worshipped in Japan. You are given the highest standing in society. All those stupid fools who are wasting their time pursuing success in their careers are envious of you and admire you at the same time. They only wish they could posess the highly usefull secret warrior skills that you trained with so much dedication to acquire. After all, your master is world reknown for his achievements and you are among his dedicated students. A special place of reverence in the hearts of the Japanese is awarded anyone who takes this path in today's modern society.

[YiLiQuan1]

I'm forced to agree with Anthony...

Too many Westerners romanticize life in Japan. They seem to think that samurai, ninja, karateka, judoka, and sumotori wander the streets in great herds, and that the pursuit of a martial ideal is the highest expression of personal development.

Hardly.

I have a very close friend who has lived in Japan for over 20 years. I lived there for just shy of 4. That only qualifies me to speak to what I experienced directly, though comments from my friend have been substantiated by my own experiences as well, so I'm inclined to believe what he tells me.

Bottom line, the "younger generation" thinks that martial arts are weird, and that koryu arts are the things grandpa's and grandma's hold valuable. They're antiques, just like their grandparents. When I lived there, I joked with some of my Japanese friends that I was "budo otaku," and after they finished laughing they agreed...

Karate is looked down upon by the "purist" Japanese MAists, as it is Okinawan (and Chinese), not truly Japanese, and isn't accorded the same level of respect that other arts receive.

Just my experiences. Your yen may buy more than mine...

[unkokusai]

Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. Martial Artists are simply considered to be weirdos by the Japanese. That's the bottom line. .

Go easy on the overgeneralizations...

[syn]

Well I'm in Japanese class (wish they taught Chinese instead) and my sensei says that kendo is really popular among kids for after school clubs, but hand martial arts aren't quite as popular but those that are good at it are still respected.

Karate (if I'm not wrong) originated from the rice farmers so they could fight back against the opressing samurai, so I could understand why it wouldn't have near as high views as Aikido and other things.

Right now though from what it seems alot of the Japanese teen culture is sort of losing its culture, and leaning towards wanting to be westerners more than anything. My friend who lived their for a year said in the large towns it's just like being in america except everyones a bit more humble.

But training under a sifu raised in china and being only 1 of the three caucasians attending (the rest chinese or vietnamese) I ifnd it hard to not be prejudice against Japanese martial arts, but I try my best to realize it's just a different style of fighting with different aspects not necessarily worse qualities.