how not to fight a boxer

**GlennR** · 01-30-2011, 10:04 PM

I'll try not to add to the pain.

[/QUOTE]

No, youre fine Phil.... you talk from a sound background

Incidentally, do you find yourself using the WC 101 punch to the body much?

A lot of people use it during chi sao but i find its rarely used in sparring

GlennR

**Phil Redmond** · 01-30-2011, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Nite Templar

Wow, Master Redmond, I never knew that. I've seen your wing chun vids on youtube, but I didn't know you were a jiu jitsu black belt also! Do you have any vids on your jiu jitsu? Would love to see some.

**Phil Redmond** · 01-30-2011, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by GlennR

I'll try not to add to the pain.

No, youre fine Phil.... you talk from a sound background

Incidentally, do you find yourself using the WC 101 punch to the body much?

A lot of people use it during chi sao but i find its rarely used in sparring

GlennR[/QUOTE]
I prefer palms and elbows and knees to the body. Punches with gloves to the body can be good. But to me, bareknuckle punches can be absorbed by body fat unless you're really accurate. That's just my opinion but I do believe in take what's available to you. So whatever gets the job done is good.

**imperialtaichi** · 01-31-2011, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Phil Redmond

But to me, bareknuckle punches can be absorbed by body fat unless you're really accurate. That's just my opinion but I do believe in take what's available to you. So whatever gets the job done is good.

Agree.

I am not a big fan of punching the head either, seen way too many broken hands in ER's. A person with broken teeth and broken zygomas continues to be able to fight back. Those structures act like "impact absorbing bumper bar on cars". While they break, the breaking of the structures disipates a lot of the impact. To drive through and cause maximum damage, palms and elbows are way better for the head.

Punches to the body, I do like tho. But ONLY if one knows how to do them properly. That's why we train with the wall bags without gloves (methods with thanks to the generosity of Master Wan Kam Leung), and not so much the swinging punching bag.

I like my phoenix eye fists too, but only when it is suitable. But I have to train them by doing push ups on the phoenix eye.

Cheers,
John

**Vajramusti** · 01-31-2011, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by imperialtaichi

Agree.

I am not a big fan of punching the head either, seen way too many broken hands in ER's. A person with broken teeth and broken zygomas continues to be able to fight back. Those structures act like "impact absorbing bumper bar on cars". While they break, the breaking of the structures disipates a lot of the impact. To drive through and cause maximum damage, palms and elbows are way better for the head.

Punches to the body, I do like tho. But ONLY if one knows how to do them properly. That's why we train with the wall bags without gloves (methods with thanks to the generosity of Master Wan Kam Leung), and not so much the swinging punching bag.

I like my phoenix eye fists too, but only when it is suitable. But I have to train them by doing push ups on the phoenix eye.

Cheers,
John

--------------------------------------------------------------
Hi John-IMO- too many people are headhunters--body punching is great-palms too
yup -on palms and elbows for the head being less damaging-Iron Mike Tyson broke his hand in punching Mitch Green on the street- who he had previously beaten in the ring with gloves..
on the phoenix eye(the devil in the details)- the wall bag should do-- no need for push ups with phoenix eye
Regards,
Joy Chaudhuri

**Vajramusti** · 01-31-2011, 05:32 AM

PS. Sanjuro-Paul has a nice vid- possibly you tube- on his practicing his phoenix eye
on a good heavy bag.He has done some jook lum spm too.

joy chaudhuri

**KPM** · 01-31-2011, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Phil Redmond

Hey Major, what qualifies one to be a "top Wing Chun guy"? Does he have to be a fighter, Chinese, well known, well liked, well published?

Like I told Andrew, I'd have a hard time coming up with an actual list. It was more a "figure of speech."

But in all seriousness....and not trying to "kiss up" to anyone....but I'd put you on the list along with Robert. You have decades of experience, you studied with a 1st generation student of Ip Man, you hold a "Master" ranking in TWC, you have experienced several lineages, and you have a lot you can tell us about your Wing Chun. I'm sure the "collective consciousness" here could come up with other criteria for the "list".....but that would be another topic entirely!

**KPM** · 01-31-2011, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by anerlich

I've met quite a few WC guys who can hit REAL hard. I'm not all that bad at it myself. But what these guys are on about is something from Planet Bizarro.

What's so bizarre? Like I said before, when you have guys that think that there is no "push" in Wing Chun, you are going to get a somewhat belabored thread. I can think of several instances when a controlled but vigorous "push" would be used:

1. When dealing with something less than a "full on" fight where you don't want to hurt the person.....like dealing with a drunk friend on the weekend who wants to mess with you.
2. When dealing with multiple opponents where you want to "push" one of them into the path of the other to stop his advance.
3. When a wall or parked vehicle is available that you can forcefully push an opponent into with a "slam."

The difference between a "push" and a sharp palm strike to the body is simply a matter of control of the amplitude of the technique. The Po Pai Palms from the dummy form can be used to "launch" the opponent away from you, or to drop him on the spot with a hard body strike.

**KPM** · 01-31-2011, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Phil Redmond

Because it's so nice to hear a body slammed to the asphalt or concrete. There's even a sweep/throw if you will in the dummy form.

Plus, there may be a need for a throw. I keep all options open.

I agree Phil! I didn't mean to contradict what you were saying. I guess I should have elaborated more.

I quoted Augustine Fong's saying more as support for the idea of the "push" we have been talking about. Of course, it would be a forceful push that "floors" the opponent.

**Frost** · 01-31-2011, 08:02 AM

if only i had known what i would have started with this thread......is there a time machine i can use to undo all this damage

**sanjuro_ronin** · 01-31-2011, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Vajramusti

PS. Sanjuro-Paul has a nice vid- possibly you tube- on his practicing his phoenix eye
on a good heavy bag.He has done some jook lum spm too.

joy chaudhuri

I've had guys that can take solid left hooks and uppercuts to the gut and liver, but never had one that could take a solid PE fist to the body.

**Nite Templar** · 01-31-2011, 10:07 AM

Master Redmond,

Any current videos of you doing jiu jitsu? Would be interested to see how a wing chun man makes JJJ a part of what he does.

**Vajramusti** · 01-31-2011, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

I've had guys that can take solid left hooks and uppercuts to the gut and liver, but never had one that could take a solid PE fist to the body.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul. Understandable.
joy chaudhuri

Frost- sorry- that is way of most threads in KFO forums.

**chusauli** · 01-31-2011, 10:52 AM

If I'm just doing a demo or showing, I just push. If its a non-dangerous encounter, its the same. You don't always need to resort to escalating force.

But if it were a self defense situation where I or my family are threatened, I strike, kick, throw, joint lock or take down. And I would throw people into hydrants, the wall, cars, or into traffic if necessary, or resort to weaponry.

You have to be legally justified in all your actions. You have to understand the situation you are in. Context is the key. Martial artists with no control are a danger to society.

Where is the "common sense"?

**chusauli** · 01-31-2011, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Niersun

I wont comment about Mr Chu, but i do feel that there is some strong marketing going on for Mr Chu by others such as yourself, which has raised a few eyebrows.

Its all about what happens in the street when talking about WCK.

Marketing? Very little of my income comes from WCK at all. I discourage people to study with me. I only have a small, closed door group in Chinatown. I have no contracts, automatic deductions, or other commercial interests in WCK in general. I don't advertise, and only insiders in general know of me locally.

I don't even like to meet most WCK people, as I find few have a balanced life of scholarship and martial skills.

And as far as the 'hood, or street, that shows a negative onesidedness of an art that can take you so much further.

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