how not to fight a boxer

[t_niehoff]

I disagree. I could watch a vid of a kid trying to learn to ride his bike and tell him to "pull your knees in" or "sit up straight and don't slouch forward" or "lock your elbows and don't let the front wheel wobble." These are all "how to do it correctly" that will help him build his skill of riding a bike. A seasoned racing cyclist could watch a vid clip of a colleague in a race and tell him how pass more effectively or how to draft on another rider, etc. So a seasoned fighter should be able to watch a vid of someone showing an application and be able to make recommendations on how to do it better. Anyone can tear something apart. If you know the skill, you should be able to provide guidance on how to do it and build it up. Its a cop out to say "you have to feel it to know what I'm talking about." This may to appropriate when talking about how to direct intent or energy. But when it comes to how to use WCK to defend against a boxer's hook, it should be straight-forward. This ain't rocket science!

Read the rest of my post, Keith, which expands on my point:

WCK is built on a number of fundamental skills that are all working together (my analogy is that it is like a Swiss watch where all the cogs fit and work together to make the watch run), and you need all those "elements" in place BEFORE you can implement the method. For example, to control someone while striking them in chi sao requires that you have a certain body structure, that you can strike with that body structure, that you have the targeting (weak line, control points, etc.) to break the opponent's structure, that you can control the bridges, etc.

Now, if you develop these various skills/elements, you will find that you AUTOMATICALLY -- from that process -- begin to work out for yourself HOW to put the cogs together for yourself to implement the method. Why? Because all these elements/skills are -- or should be -- all directed toward doing that method (they are the tools you need for that job). The method is your guide, your compass, it is what you are trying to do, and the various skills/elements are how you go about doing it.

I am providing "guidance" on how to do it -- but you aren't listening.

If you have learned WCK's method, then you will know why the question "how to use WCK to defend against a boxer's hook?" is a WRONG question. That's NOT what we do. And you won't get the right answers by asking the wrong questions.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Let me just cut to the chase, Jim, and address this to Terence.

When using your wing chun, Terence, and when you spar with boxers:

You say that you punch your way in, and in the process of attacking center, it might be necessary to hit (punch) their arms, and you always try to break their structure on initial contact.

You've made it clear that this is your method.

So think back to the last time you sparred a boxer with this approach - what was the result?

How did you do?

What was he throwing at you?

What happened when he did?

Did you break his structure?

Please be specific.

[t_niehoff]

Let me just cut to the chase, Jim, and address this to Terence.

When using your wing chun, Terence, and when you spar with boxers:

You say that you punch your way in, and in the process of attacking center, it might be necessary to hit (punch) their arms, and you always try to break their structure on initial contact.

You've made it clear that this is your method.

Yes, that is my method BECAUSE THAT IS WCK'S METHOD. This is what they teach in all the older, legit branches of WCK.

So think back to the last time you sparred a boxer with this approach - what was the result?

How did you do?

What was he throwing at you?

What happened when he did?

Please be specific.

Victor, I find that dealing with PURE boxers -- even very good boxers -- is not very difficult since what we do -- getting in and controlling -- takes away their game. I am not trying to box with him, or stay outside and "deal" with his punches. That is playing his game. It can't be put into a you-do-this and he-does-that and then you-do-this-other-thing and he-responds-with, etc. That is a wrong way of looking at it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNBbk58FC6A

Ed Hart's description of his meeting with Bruce shows that Bruce knew WCK's method.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Terence,

You did not answer my specific question about exactly what happened the last time you sparred a boxer.

You gave a generic answer.

And amazingly, you said that it's easy to deal with very good pure boxers - and based upon your previous posts - these are guys who train out of boxing gyms that you're talking about.

Therefore I see no point in taking this any further.

Well that's my case, Jim, and it's now closed.

[t_niehoff]

Terence,

You did not answer my specific question about exactly what happened the last time you sparred a boxer.

You gave a generic answer.

And amazingly, you said that it's easy to deal with very good pure boxers - and based upon your previous posts - these are guys who train out of boxing gyms that you're talking about.

Therefore I see no point in taking this any further.

Well that's my case, Jim, and it's now closed.

As I KEEP TELLING YOU, there is no point in giving specifics. A blow-by-blow account won't clarify anything. Ed Hart gave a specific example of what happened to him -- that didn't help you, did it?

It is easy to deal with boxers -- unless you box with them. How difficult was it for Randy to deal with Toney? Easy, because he DID NOT BOX with him. Is that point sinking in yet? A pure, unattached striking game is not very difficult to deal with -- as anyone can see from MMA -- IF you are not trying to play the same game. But when you do "WCK kickboxing", you will have all kinds of difficulty since you are playing into their game, their strengths.

The case is closed because you cannot --and will not -- see past your own limitations.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Like I said - the case is closed.

"It's easy to deal with very good pure boxers using wing chun."

I have no more time to waste on this.

P.S.- Randy Couture does not use any wing chun.

[t_niehoff]

Like I said - the case is closed.

"It's easy to deal with very good pure boxers using wing chun."

I have no more time to waste on this.

P.S.- Randy Couture does not use any wing chun.

Of course Randy doesn't use WCK -- but my point is that he isn't trying to box or to stand and bang with a boxer: he uses a different game, one that takes boxing out of the picture. WCK takes boxing out of the picture too. You don't appreciate that since to YOU (and Cheung) WCK is a form of kickboxing.