how not to fight a boxer

[JPinAZ]

pretty easy to grasp?

Actually, yes. Loi Lau Hoi Sung is something a WC student should be learning very early on, at least where I train. Maybe I could ask a 1 year student to come here and explain it to you.
And yes, it does take some time to get the intricacies of it to come out in the body, it is nothing 'so special' that any normal person with some time training can't grasp, with proper instruction of course.

So, for me, different lineages are implementing things in a different way. and when some one shared an elegant implementation. I always appreciated.
nothing is pretty easy to grasp if one is not taught.

While I would agree, Robert did a fair job with sharing some of his understanding of Loi Lau Hoi Sung concept, it isn't anything so 'mind blowing' as you are making out to be. It was basic level information. I did enjoy reading what he had to share, but lets not make a mountain out of a molehill

true, take a photo at face value.

And one could look at the body structure for signature which often tell a lots.

This type of signature is different then the type Robert mention.
The white model's body is actually resist it instead of accept it. if the body structure is an accepting one, then the straight leg needs to bend or fold up to take an absorb the incoming force.

You can't tell any of that by a picture. Even video doesn't really tell the whole story when talking about LLHS.

And, looking at the picture, the legs are bent.

so different lineages are doing different things and it is not that every move is come accept goes return in the same way of implementation. there are variaty of implementation and it is not that easy or obvious.

what Robert reveal is actually something very precious

To someone with little to no understanding of the subject, it would appear precious I guess. Then again, "you are certainly correct according to your view."

As for loi lau hoi sung concept, it has nothing to do with 'lineage', only understanding. LLHS is about energy. It's a concept to help one understand how to receive energy as it comes into one's space, escort it to a place where it can't effect your center of gravity, and then setting up a strong position of your own. It can be done without footwork or with, and it can be used in any direction - horizontal, vertical or diagonal (depending on the energy you 'receive' once contact is made)

It also doesn't necessarily mean 'when he goes, I send him flying' during the 'hoi sung' as Robert describes.From my experience, a prefered result would mean you have successfully accepted and redirected the energy and are now in a strong position to hit. Why would you want to fly someone away anyway? To me that's giving up control you just gained during the 'loi lau'
FWIW, this isn't something you can learn by looking at a picture, videos, or reading from a book no matter how hard you try. You have to feel it. That means training and working against live opponents.

[KPM]

KPM: it's cool. Maybe next time don't jump at me so quickly with that 'HFY' crap. I speak for myself and from my own experience, hard work and training. And, I actually do know quite a bit about WCK in general outside of my HFY training

Point taken! Again, my apologies.

[IRONMONK]

- I train Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun!!!! Over 2-3 hours a day!

- CSL Wing Chun is the stand up I teach all my guys - for the street, for any type for competition. Boxing, Kickboxing, MMA, whatever. We use 100% CSL Wing Chun

- I teach pure MMA fighters as well. I teach them our system of CSL Chinese Boxing - which is our wing chun striking and body structure. Once they have learnt it, they all say it changes the way they understand striking so much they want to rest of our wing chun system. Which is not like any wing chun they have seen before

- Yes - I train in Wrestling and BJJ. I train with Eddy Millis ( a top fight trainer, K1 fighter and coach also BJJ Black belt) I also train 3 times a week with my BJJ teacher Leo Negao 2 times world champion. ( Leo also now uses CSL Wing Chun Boxing!) He thinks the CSL wing chun like no other striking system he has seen and loves it. He is open minded and a great teacher. He also agrees its great for stand up in MMA as it fit well will BJJ.

- I teach many Pro fighter CSL Wing Chun. Peter Irving trains at my class every week and has learned our system. He is a top UK Pro MMA fighter. I have 3 other Pros in my class now.

- I have a purple belt in BJJ, so I do understand grappling and MMA very well. I know what works as I do it.

My guys that fight use our Wing Chun, so for anyone to say they don't is -

Incorrect - as we know what we train!

How can you know if you never trained with me!

I know some people can not understand what we do. That is fine. No problem. If you have not trained in CSL Wing Chun and have not been to my class or been sparring with with us or trained with us, then of course you would not understand. BUT why then do these guys have so much to say about us LOL

Look, these guys would be best to either drop in and try us out or go and test their wing chun like we do. Otherwise the whole idea of someone telling me what I do and don't do is a complete joke.

I just got back from training my team for coming fights. You never see my guys on fourms.. why?? because they are too busy training hard, and don't need anyone to tell them what they are doing or if it is correct because they already know!

I have 100% respect for my teacher and friend Robert Chu as he has changed my life. I would have never reached the level of skill I have in any of the martial arts that I train without his continued teaching.


Alan

Fair enough.
Does Leo Nagao practise chi sao training or is he just training the body structure hitting ?

[chusauli]

It also doesn't necessarily mean 'when he goes, I send him flying' during the 'hoi sung' as Robert describes.From my experience, a prefered result would mean you have successfully accepted and redirected the energy and are now in a strong position to hit. Why would you want to fly someone away anyway? To me that's giving up control you just gained during the 'loi lau'
FWIW, this isn't something you can learn by looking at a picture, videos, or reading from a book no matter how hard you try. You have to feel it. That means training and working against live opponents.

Just a quick comment. JP is correct about making a person "fly away" - you can choose to do it, or you can "escort" them (with punches, strikes, elbows, knees, kicks, throws, projections, joint manipulations, etc.) - its all up to you.

Many times in TCMA demos, we show the force and simply throw them away. The result is a dramatic show of power.

As I get older, I prefer less violence. But that's me.

But you have preferences and choices.

[YouKnowWho]

To make someone "flying away" so he can come back to me afterward make no sense IMO. The best place for my opponent is "right below my knee".

[Wayfaring]

I have also been a closet grappler with a background in Chin-na, Japanese Jiu jitsu, Aikido, Judo, Shuai Jiao and wrestling, and was introduced to BJJ a while back by Royce and Rorion Gracie before the first UFC. Its not something I pursued full time, but I enjoyed and always knew about the dangers of meeting a ground specialist, and knew that grappling is very important for fighting. Recently, I have been doing more cross training in BJJ.

With your experience, I would ask you, is there is no posting, posturing up, maintaining base, smashing, putting the weight on the opponent in TWC as you learned it?

No clue w/r to TWC. However, the similarities between WCK and BJJ that i have found is the centerline in certain positions in grappling (useless in other positions), elbow position and control, and the general principle of structure - meaning your body in a position to bear load and receive force on incoming vectors.

[anerlich]

I am not sure, but there certainly seems to be a lot of interference or noise here. All I was asking is if you found that BJJ had shared similar experience as WCK's in terms of "posting, posturing up, maintaining base, smashing, putting the weight on the opponent"?

Again, I repeat, I feel it does. There are indeed, what I feel are similarities to all good, functional martial arts. I'll give examples:

Much of the static I think came from reactions to posts from other people, who were most probably well-meaning.

As stated, I have looked for and found similarities but have found further searching for or relying on any such convergence is not particularly useful. YMMV.

[anerlich]

To make someone "flying away" so he can come back to me afterward make no sense IMO. The best place for my opponent is "right below my knee".

OK, as long as while he's down there he's not hitting you with a low ankle shoot.

[YouKnowWho]

OK, as long as while he's down there he's not hitting you with a low ankle shoot.

The "right below my knee" means my opponent is "flat" on the ground, one of my knee lands on his chest, one of my hands controls his arm, and one of my hands is on his throat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbJfX9Jinik

[Hendrik]

To make someone "flying away" so he can come back to me afterward make no sense IMO. The best place for my opponent is "right below my knee".

Robert is just being humble.

To be able to accept fully and return with elegance "flying away" means lots of control, more then what most know how.

It is just being compassionate to flying others away and not hurting them. if they come back then fly them again without hurting them. That is real kung fu with solid confident.

So, dont be fool by those who has advance stuffs. it is those who dont have to do damage and dont have to control has advance stuffs. it is about let go let God.

[Wayfaring]

As stated, I have looked for and found similarities but have found further searching for or relying on any such convergence is not particularly useful. YMMV.

Agreed - for the primary reason that there are different fundamentals on the ground that need to be developed and ingrained. Until they are any similarities won't help and in many cases can cause you to do the exact wrong thing.

[anerlich]

the "right below my knee" means my opponent is "flat" on the ground, one of my knee lands on his chest, one of my hands controls his arm, and one of my hands is on his throat.

bjj 101......

[YouKnowWho]

It is just being compassionate to flying others away and not hurting them. if they come back then fly them again without hurting them. That is real kung fu with solid confident.

The "push" is neither "strike" nor "throw". It only exists in the Taiji system. It's the most rediculous move that ever exist in TCMA.

- One should keep his friends close but his enemies closer.
- It's your fault when you allow the samething to happen twice.
- To be kind to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself.

There was a car accident happened in the street of Taipei, Taiwan. The argument soon turned into a fight. One guy tried to get in his car, the other guy got hold of him and prevented the other guy from doing that. When the cops came, they found out the guy who tried to get in his car, had a handgun in his glove compartment. If that guy got into his car, the other guy could be dead on the street that day.

You push a guy away, he runs to his car, gets a gun, and comes back to shot you dead.

[Niersun]

So, dont be fool by those who has advance stuffs. it is those who dont have to do damage and dont have to control has advance stuffs.

I think you have been fooled or watch too many kung fu movies.

[Hendrik]

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1075431]The "push" is neither "strike" nor "throw". It only exists in the Taiji system. It's the most rediculous move that ever exist in TCMA.

- One should keep his friends close but his enemies closer.
- It's your fault when you allow the samething to happen twice.
- To be kind to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself.

There was a car accident happened in the street of Taipei, Taiwan. The argument soon turned into a fight. One guy tried to get in his car, the other guy got hold of him and prevented the other guy from doing that. When the cops came, they found out the guy who tried to get in his car, had a handgun in his glove compartment. If that guy got into his car, the other guy could be dead on the street that day.

You push a guy away, he runs to his car, gets a gun, and comes back to shot you dead./QUOTE]


1, who says it is a push?

2, who says one uses it in street?

3, well, your " most rediculous move that ever exist in TCMA." Robert has used it many times to show his superiority in art and not hurting anyone. He called that Air Chu.
and if he likes to one can get knock out unconcious.

4, this is a WCK forum discussing WCK. it is not about what happen in the street.