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i agree, jp.Originally Posted by JPinAZ
he didnt say what was wrong with the person, he said what was wrong with wing chun (the misguided tangent) it would seem his wing chung cant bridge the gap, therefore he imposes someone doing kickboxing? who was really doing wing chun that didnt work.
i dont get where this guy is coming from..no offense, tho. i just think you missed the point of the question, kpm.
Last edited by tigershorty; 01-12-2011 at 01:52 AM.
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Boxer has a significant reach advantage
And wing chunner has a sandcastle chin
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Interesting clip, but that was no boxer but a pretty casual Muay Thai fighter using his hands. Nice session though and something that actually looked quite friendly and enjoyable imho. Reminded me a little of the Chuck & Bruce fight in WOTD, when Chuck starts to mimic Bruce and gets blasted.
Exactly what happened here imo.
When you fight/spar with Wing Chun, do so. Don't try to play their game when they obviously have more experience at what they do than you will! If you have trained well, entry to a tall, longer reach opponent isn't as dificult as people think. You also have the benefit of striking upwards under the chin, so drill specifics and just don't fall into the 'mirror trap'.
Last edited by LoneTiger108; 01-12-2011 at 04:02 AM.
Ti Fei
詠春國術
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So what you are suggesting is that a stand up style that is meant to be a close range striking art should abandon its principles and look for the throw as soon as it comes up against a boxer?
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Oh thank you, I posted the clip precisely because of this, all the threads lately have talked about wing chuns strategy, expertise, ability to fight close in etc, but where do we actually see this in action? most clips are cooperative training clips, and the few fights out there (even phils and alan orrs even though they are good clips) do not show anything like what people are talking about
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So please post full contact clips of wing chun actually closing the gap and dominating the centre?
There are pages and pages on this forum of wing chun guys talking about how it works, what it should look like in action, but the few videos of it in full contact action either show the wing chun guy losing or winning in a manner most say is not wing chun and certainly not in the manner everyone talks about on here
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Before I start talking a lot of junk about any sparring match, I like for there to be an even match from a physical perspective as well as experience. Neither fighter was very good and it wasn't a fair match physically for sure.
I guess that you could create a number of talking points about boxing versus WCK from the fight, but neither fighter was a great representative of their respective arts so what we would be doing is using generalizations about boxing versus WCK to make sense of the fight and not the fight to make generalizations about boxing versus WCK.
Without grabbing and elbows, it is hard to put out a legitimate display of classical WCK. Good for the WCK guy to get out there and spar, but it looked to me like they were following boxing rules so a classically trained WCK guy under those rules will probably do just what you saw. Run in and chain punch because there isn't a lot else there.
Last edited by HumbleWCGuy; 01-12-2011 at 05:27 AM.
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No offense tigershorty, but I think you must be a little dense! I missed the point? I've contributed what I thought about that clip to the discussion, which triggered several topical responses. What have you done? I said what was wrong with the person....he couldn't close the gap effectively and was trying to kickbox with his WCK. Unfortunately, as Jim pointed out, this is pretty common amongst WCKers.
You said "it would seem his wing chung cant bridge the gap, therefore he imposes someone doing kickboxing?" What the heck does that mean? Are you implying something about my WCK based on what I said about that clip? I think you are the one that seems to have missed the point!
GM of Hadaka Korosu
It's very simple really:
The only way to fight and beat a boxer with WC is the same way you fight and beat anyone else with WC -
You expose your WC to said fighting system, learn the puzzle it presents, learn how to solve it and voila, you have effective WC vs whatever system it has been exposed to.
The boxer had all the advantages:
Height, reach, power, skill level and confidence.
He also had the full contact experience as we can see that when he does get hit, it doesn't phase him, as opposed to the WC guy that gets his "structure" compromised with virtually every hit.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
Stop being sensible that has no place here
And I thought your new years promise to yourself was to keep off the wing chun forum!
Banned
Yes, and the "exposure to said fighting system" is to actually go train/spar with good people in that "system" -- not have one of your own "pretend" to be a boxer.
If you are not already doing it, you won't be able to do it.
Good observations.The boxer had all the advantages:
Height, reach, power, skill level and confidence.
He also had the full contact experience as we can see that when he does get hit, it doesn't phase him, as opposed to the WC guy that gets his "structure" compromised with virtually every hit.
I'd like to add, since this has come up, that the WCK guy didn't have any trouble "getting in." He got in several times. He just didn't stay there, and he didn't -- and couldn't -- do anything while he was there. He was throwing from the outside as he stepped in, then once in, he stepped out again.
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Well, I fell and hit my head, sorry.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
GM of Hadaka Korosu
The reason, I assume from what I saw, that he couldn't stay in is because he didn't like getting hit, he didn't have experience in "staying in while getting hit" and that the boxers "profile" presented him with problems he hadn't faced before.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
Registered User
He didn't train this way enough before?
He didn't get used to staying in and the hits that come with that?
He spent most of is training time stationary and couldn't translate his strikes to a moving platform?
The "boxer" likely didn't have substantial experience with wing chun, but he would be accustomed to blows, to using his strikes on a moving target while moving, etc.
The difference between the two is the difference between knowing the theory of the fighting method and knowing the theory and having entrained it in its proper context, imo.
I would use a blue eyed, blond haired Chechnyan to ruin you- Drake on weapons
GM of Hadaka Korosu
.The "boxer" likely didn't have substantial experience with wing chun, but he would be accustomed to blows, to using his strikes on a moving target while moving, etc
Unless a boxer is going into match with a specific person that they know, they don't really prepare that much, they just fight their own fight.
As a boxer I fought everyone, basically, the same:
I fought my fight, period.
Of course it didn't always go as planned, LOL !
But I never changed my fighting style because of who or what I was fighting and my fighting style was very simple:
My opponent was a human punching bag.
What hand he had forward, what he liked to do, how he liked to do it, never factor into it much.
Why?
Because I approached a fight with the understanding that it was not "just" a fight with another boxer, but that it could be a Thai boxer, a judoka, a wrestler, whatever.
Of course I was only able to fight like the "opponent wasn't there" because I HAD been exposed to fighting those particular "systems" before.
It is like BL used to say, though I don't think he was the first to say it:
When I started a kick was a kick and a punch was a punch, but when I learned a kick wasn't just a kick and a punch wasn't just a punch.
Now that I am experienced, a kick is a kick and a punch is a punch.
What that means to me is that, in our learning phase ( that never really ends) we need to be exposed to the different methods of combat, once we are, they "don't matter" anymore because, in the end, we have modified OURSELVES enough that the differences aren't there and what we are fighting is the person, not the system.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
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