KO's and MORE KO's !!

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is what they have done, proven and recorded:
(Sugar) Ray Robinson 179 wins, 19 losses, 6 draws, 2 no contests, 109 KO
Julio Cesar Chavez - Won 104 Lost 5, 2 draws, 80 KO
Archie Moore - 181 wins, 24 losses, 9 draws and 1 no contest, 145 KO
(Big) George Foreman - Won 76 lost 5, 68 KO
Rocky Marciano - Won 49 Lost 0, 43 KO
Roberto Duran - 103 Wins, 16 Loss, 69 Knockouts
Buck Smith- he has a record of 179-20-2, 120 KOs.

Just a same list of fighters with over 40 ko's, from different eras.

All these KO's are recorded and have been verified so nothing is anecdotal or heresay or legend.

So I ask you, what have the fighters in your system of H2H done?

[sanjuro_ronin]

MT perhaps:

Apidej Sit Hirun: 340 wins 1 draws 10 losses, known as 'The Champion of Seven Titles', the most fearful kicker that Muay Thai may ever have seen, he once broke his opponent's arm with his kick strike. His kick aresenal made him famous as he set a record by holding, at one time, seven welterweight titles of both Muay Thai and International boxing, a historic record that still stands. He is also known as The Man of 7 Titles and The Legendary Best Muaythai Kicker of the Century and The Best Muaythai Fighter of the Century, titles were awarded by the Authority King of Thailand.

Deiselnoi Chor Thanasukarn(Sky-Piercing Knee Kicker): The most feared fighter ever, His hand to hand combat skills remain unequalled. At the age of 19 Deisel Noi gained Light Weight title at Lumphini. Defending it for four years and abondioning it only for lack of adversaries.
Hardly anyone dared to challenge the champion Deisel Noi fearing severe and painful defeat. He enjoyed 50 (16 KOs in a row using his knees) consecutive wins and finished his career early as the result of his exceptional force.

Samart Payakaroon(The best of all): 170 Muay Thai wins, Muay thai world champion and two time world featherweight boxing champion

Ramon Dekker(Diamond): 175 wins (90 KOs) 26 losses, The best known European Muay thai fighter of all time

Coban Lookchaomaesaithong(Cruncher): 270 Fights Fought Dekkers a total of four times, Winning 2 and Lossing 2

[David Jamieson]

Neither, myself, my teacher or any of my classmates have ever used the style to sport fight.

What can I say? It was never advertised as a boxing club...

If sugar ray did traditional kung fu instead of boxing, I wonder what his KO count would be. lol

When there were comps available, if you KO'd someone, YOU would get disqualified.

That's the nature of traditional martial arts competitions.

However, I do have a juvenile boxing record.


Are you as interested in turning Kung Fu into a mere sport as well? lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

Neither, myself, my teacher or any of my classmates have ever used the style to sport fight.

What can I say? It was never advertised as a boxing club...

If sugar ray did traditional kung fu instead of boxing, I wonder what his KO count would be. lol

When there were comps available, if you KO'd someone, YOU would get disqualified.

That's the nature of traditional martial arts competitions.

However, I do have a juvenile boxing record.


Are you as interested in turning Kung Fu into a mere sport as well? lol

I don't think that Kung fu can evolve to being a sport, it's just not good enough right now.


I mean, boxing and MT has produced ALL these fighters with superb KO ability, some of them KO'ing over 100 people, and these are verifiable and recorded KO's not just heresay and anecodotes !!!

I don't know but I have a sneaky suspicion that these coaches and fighters may be on to something...

[David Jamieson]

I don't think that Kung fu can evolve to being a sport, it's just not good enough right now.


I mean, boxing and MT has produced ALL these fighters with superb KO ability, some of them KO'ing over 100 people, and these are verifiable and recorded KO's not just heresay and anecodotes !!!

I don't know but I have a sneaky suspicion that these coaches and fighters may be on to something...

lol.

Boxing has no legs, no weapons and is sport with very refined rules.
Muay Thai has lost huge components of itself as a culturally definitive martial art and has become a sport.

I'm not in the "if it's a sport it's better" camp when it comes to martial arts.

I'm in the "why hasn't it evolved into firearms use" camp.

I could care less about carded fights and ufc or mt fighter of the week. It just doesn't hold my interest anymore.

Fighters and fighting is boring and all too forgettable these days.
I'm getting rid of that part more and more and getting more into the health and transformation aspect of martial arts.

Just not into fighting really. Can't find the point of it. Especially in context to sport. I mean...what is the point of sport fighting anyway?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Boxing has no legs, no weapons and is sport with very refined rules.
Muay Thai has lost huge components of itself as a culturally definitive martial art and has become a sport.

And yet, even with all those restrictions and a level playing field, you get all those KO's !
That must mean in a free for all like Kung fu there most be KO's all over the place !!
heck, there must be more KO's than used rubbers after the prom !

[David Jamieson]

And yet, even with all those restrictions and a level playing field, you get all those KO's !
That must mean in a free for all like Kung fu there most be KO's all over the place !!
heck, there must be more KO's than used rubbers after the prom !

KO's are fine. I mean, if you want to score one, there's a few ways to get one:

1) hit hard enough that the brain hits to skull inside

2) hit a sweet spot which will cause a nerve overload and then, KO.

3) stop the air to the brain

4) stop the blood to the brain

I don't think you need to be a specific type of martial artist to make a KO.
Boxing has been around for a long time. In the rule set, you are simply going to have a lot of KO's because it counts as a win and so, people go for them by head hunting and hitting at the head until the 2 things above get realized.

There's many KO's with these because they've been organized sports for a long time.

there is no such thing for Chinese martial arts except for old time Lei Tai and now the advent of sanda/san shou which, I'm pretty sure there are lot's of KO's happening in.

But, I doubt san shou will get any association with the greater body of Kung Fu styles in the wider world of ufc fans. People will see it as the one that doesn't have ground fighting in it...lol

Kung Fu is a big cluster hump for a lot of reasons.

Frankly, I"m ok with it. It is what it is.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think you may be missing the point of the thread David.
These are actual, recorded, verifiable KO's.
Archie Moore KO'd more than 140 people, no scratch that, 140 FIGHTERS.
And he was just ONE guy, look at that very small sample list.
Where is WC Moore? or White Crane's? or Northern Mantis?

Get where I am going with this?

[David Jamieson]

I think you may be missing the point of the thread David.
These are actual, recorded, verifiable KO's.
Archie Moore KO'd more than 140 people, no scratch that, 140 FIGHTERS.
And he was just ONE guy, look at that very small sample list.
Where is WC Moore? or White Crane's? or Northern Mantis?

Get where I am going with this?

Yeah, and it will go no more because there are a bajillion wing chun/crane/mantis/et al clubs that don't agree with each other or compete or have varying history or legends and like most traditional clubs have zero sanctioned venues for fighting.

However, how many did Archie Moore kill with a spear?
I'll bet there were a lot of soldiers of yore who trained daily with a spear, killed many and never knocked anyone out.

Kung Fu doesn't have a single rule set like boxing does.

Chinese martial arts are so far and apart from each other, they do not enjoy the unity of Muay Thai style which has slowly morphed into a single style due to the rule set it uses with slight variation depending on the populace that enjoys it.

for instance, in US and Canada, Muay Thai isn't actually like the Muay Thai used in Thailand because it negates some of the more devastating stuff such as elbow strikes.

then again, I though that burmese boxers looked and fought a lot harder and tougher than any thais and despite that you types "most feared fighter..." I'd never even heard of that guy.

But then, I've never heard of lots of guys who have knocked out lots of other guys in sport fights.

I'm still in the kung fu would be properly evolved with gun use in it camp.

[crashhelmet]

I think you may be missing the point of the thread David.
These are actual, recorded, verifiable KO's.
Archie Moore KO'd more than 140 people, no scratch that, 140 FIGHTERS.
And he was just ONE guy, look at that very small sample list.
Where is WC Moore? or White Crane's? or Northern Mantis?

Get where I am going with this?

Where are the Kung Fu tournaments that would promote and track these KOs? Thats' the biggest difference and what David was pointing out. Kung Fu is not a sport. If it was elevated to a sport, you just might see those knockouts.

[lkfmdc]

never trust Muay Thai records, they are estimates at best....

[EarthDragon]

kinda confused about the intent of this thread... sanjuro was your point to show boxing or MT has better /tougher fighters then TCMA?

Or trying to put the "art" of kung fu into a sport catagory to be measured?

[goju]

And yet, even with all those restrictions and a level playing field, you get all those KO's !
!

and even in mixed competitions boxers or guys who have more advanced boxing than their opponent often win

[IronWeasel]

kinda confused about the intent of this thread... sanjuro was your point to show boxing or MT has better /tougher fighters then TCMA?

I think his intent was to point out the weakness inherent in Muay Thai and Boxing.

Both sports show hundreds of matches and the worst thing that happened was a K.O.

Had those all been Kung Fu matches, there would have been 247 confirmed kills and 78 Dim Mak related deaths over the next few days.

[David Jamieson]

lol @iw.

If records were even kept and a consistent tournament system were in place and the rule set involved stated clearly that a knockout was the most singular way to decisively win the fight, then I'm pretty sure there will be a high count of knockouts no matter what you apply that too, style wise.

Comparably speaking, the whole KO being the measure would mete out as judo is for sissies!

just kidding judokas!