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Thread: The Risk of Wing Chun Bong-Sau

  1. #46
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    If your opponent tries to

    - straight his arm, you "follow his straight" and apply straight arm lock.
    - bend his arm, you "follow his bending" and apply bend arm lock.

    The "straight lock" and "bend lock" are always come in pair. You can use one to set up another.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 02-01-2011 at 05:03 PM.

  2. #47
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    Anerlich

    As i said.... i'm a big fan of chin na. i know there are bent arm locks, but there even easier to avoid/harder to apply.... look up anti chin na or ba gua. they guy's show you how easy it is to avoid. though some times you give them targets you rather they would'nt have access to.


    ykw

    If your going to let some one get better positioning, there going to be able to hit you or lock you... simple as.... that's what we all train to do.


    Turn bong to tan.... hit him with your other hand! as for positioning/footwork i'm sure you know that.




    Sorry i only had a scan through the post..... i'm going to go back and read through ")

  3. #48
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    Anerlich


    Just seen your bjj guy so you'll know that better than me LOL



    Any way this thread is pointless......

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.D.O View Post
    hit him with your other hand!
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Your opponent will not use his right/left hand to grab your left/right hand (he is in your front door - mirror stance). Since your center line and your opponent's center line will have intersection, you can punch him with the other hand as you have just pointed out. Your opponent will always use his right/left hand to grab your right/left hand (he is in your side door - uniform stance). This way his center line and your center line will not have intersection. When he grabs you this way, since he can just give you a quick pull or push and use your front arm to jam your back arm, you will not be able to generate any force from your back arm to punch him. You may not even be able to reach him with your back arm because he will be in your "side door - blind spot".
    Even boxer uses this strategy to move toward his opponent's "side door - outside of both arms" so his opponent's back hand cannot reach him. By using the "side door" concept and use your opponent's leading arm to jam his back arm is very common in all MA styles.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 02-02-2011 at 12:43 PM.

  5. #50
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    As i said.... i'm a big fan of chin na. i know there are bent arm locks, but there even easier to avoid/harder to apply
    That's probably true, at least in the bon sao case being discussed. Standing locks are pretty low percentage anyway. AS a BJJ guy I want the guy on the ground before I try choking him or locking him up.

    AS you said, why go to all that trouble if you can just hit the guy?
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by anerlich View Post
    why go to all that trouble if you can just hit the guy?
    The Chin Na is commonly used by the police officers. It's called "police arresting skill".

    A police can't just punch anybody on the face.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWG6eglkLa8

    You can do anything you want to if you are in the police SWAT team.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL4JO...eature=related
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 02-02-2011 at 03:20 PM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    The Chin Na is commonly used by the police officers. It's called "police arresting skill".

    A police can't just punch anybody on the face.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWG6eglkLa8

    You can do anything you want to if you are in the police SWAT team.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL4JO...eature=related
    Any chi na tech is basically being cruel to yourself to be kind to the person being handled. There are heaps of come along techs in CQB (the only other stlye im versed in other than VT) but more often than not with drunk drugged or just plain crazy nutters you have to loosen them up to sink actions in. You actually see this all the time in BJJ MMA.

    Police arent allowed to hit or attack anyone but dont be a fool and think that police are not tagging people when the situation is needed to apply chi na or come along techs.

    This is from a New zealand POV mind you. in the US dont you just unload clips on fools
    Training is the pursuit of perfection - Fighting is settling for results - ME

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  8. #53
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    The Chin Na is commonly used by the police officers. It's called "police arresting skill".

    A police can't just punch anybody on the face.
    I'm not a cop.

    A friend of mine was a cop who used to teach arrest and control skills to cops. They can do some really nasty sh*t that looks innocent.

    Among other things, he teaches a "face push", which can range from a tilt of the head to disorient, to a palm strike to the face. "No your honour, I was just pushing him away."

    I said, "hit the guy", not "punch him in the face".

    If you're a cop and not hitting the guy, what is he using bon sao to deflect?

    Usual arrest procedures have the guy on his face on the ground or against a wall or vehicle getting cuffed, which I think is in tune with my philosophy of getting the guy on the ground before locking him up.
    Last edited by anerlich; 02-02-2011 at 04:30 PM.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
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  9. #54
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    Hello,

    I was always taught, and I was a cop , that when applying any type of Chin Na or other control method, the opponent should either go down to the ground or up on his toes. Destroys their root and sense of balance.

    A police officer, good ones anyhow, do not usually beat up the guys they are arresting. Also, it usually takes more skill to control someone than to strike them, ime anyhow.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  10. #55
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    Police just use CS spray in England instead of fancy locks

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRONMONK View Post
    Police just use CS spray in England instead of fancy locks
    Well, in Philly they just shoot people, or have several cops beat up one person.

    If anyone remembers MOVE back in the early 80's you'll know not to mess with Philly cops!!!!!

    In the MOVE incident, the Police burned down approximately 60 houses to get to those in one.

    "Philadelphia: 1980s, MOVE siege
    On May 13, 1985, the Philadelphia Police Department dropped a bomb on the roof of the Osage Avenue rowhouse compound of MOVE, an anarchists' group. The explosion led to a massive fire that destroyed 61 rowhomes in the West Philadelphia nieghborhood and the deaths of 11 people, including five children."

    http://www.philly.com/philly/photos/...980s_MOVE.html
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  12. #57
    I did a Ouija board last night and a message came through to get me to tell everybody on the Wing Chun KFM forum that you are all doing Bong Sau wrong and to get yourself to any good MMA or MT gym (or Alan Orr) and they will thrown you around like rag dolls. I didnt quite catch the spirits name but he was angry. It sounded like Clarence or something.......

    I think I may be possessed....Hi Robert!!!

    TH

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    Well, in Philly they just shoot people, or have several cops beat up one person.

    If anyone remembers MOVE back in the early 80's you'll know not to mess with Philly cops!!!!!

    In the MOVE incident, the Police burned down approximately 60 houses to get to those in one.

    "Philadelphia: 1980s, MOVE siege
    On May 13, 1985, the Philadelphia Police Department dropped a bomb on the roof of the Osage Avenue rowhouse compound of MOVE, an anarchists' group. The explosion led to a massive fire that destroyed 61 rowhomes in the West Philadelphia nieghborhood and the deaths of 11 people, including five children."

    http://www.philly.com/philly/photos/...980s_MOVE.html
    I've lived in bad areas in NY, CT, and Detroit but I've never seen a place like Philly where they shoot at cops all the time. I'm 5 miles from Philly so I get Philly news and I see it happen often. You can't blame Philly cops for being tough.
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  14. #59
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    Bong Tan

    Sifu Phillip Redmond
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  15. #60
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1COyYQnvY

    In this clip, his opponent punches with left hand and he blocks with right Bong Sau. If his opponent punches with right hand and if he still blocks with his right Bong Sau, his opponent can slides his right hand down to his right wrist, and uses his left hand to press up on his right Bong Sau elbow.

    Will you always block your opponent's right punch with your left Bong Sau and never with your right Bong sau? Of course if you always do that, you won't have any risk for your Bong Sau because your opponent's punching arm can jam his other arm and prevent his other hand to reach to your elbow.

    Long time ago there was a WC guideline that you always use your left arm to block your opponent's right punch, and use your right arm to block your opponent's left punch. One tournament in Hong Kong (1970 or 1971?), a CLF guy used a right hook punch on a WC guy, the WC guy blocked with his left Tang Sau. The CLF guy's right hook punch went through the WC guy's left Tang Sau and still hit the WC guy's head. After that day, The WC system in Hong Kong bent that rule and that also generated the risk for using the right Bong Sau to block your opponent's right punch.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 02-15-2011 at 05:36 PM.

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