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Thread: Evidence-Based Taiji and Qigong

  1. #1
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    Evidence-Based Taiji and Qigong

    Check out our March April 2011 issue for Evidence-Based Tai Chi and Qigong By Kevin Ott. Dr. Yang Yang, author of Taijiquan - The Art of Nurturing, The Science of Power, has developed and trademarked Evidence-Based Taiji (EBT)(tm). Anyone worked with it yet?

    Here's his website.
    Gene Ching
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  2. #2
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    Some great Q&A/Articles on his site.

    When did you come to realize that Taiji would become an integral part of your life?
    One of the symptoms of my heart defect was that, during the winter time, I could not keep my body warm. At night time, I would have to stay with my father and brother. The Chinese doctors said that my Qi was not strong and could not reach the extreme of my body. After I began to practice Taiji, I could feel my body getting warmer and warmer. Such a big improvement is perhaps not so obviously manifest in those practitioners who begin the study of Taiji in relatively good health. Eventually, I became much stronger. Where before I was much too weak, I was now able to play sports with other children. I remember especially wrestling with larger boys, something that would have been impossible before. This made me more and more confident. In 1977, I passed a physical check up, which was a prerequisite for entrance into the university. By that time, all symptoms of my congenital heart defect were gone. This was quite fortunate for me. If the doctors giving me the physical exam had detected a heart condition, I would not have been allowed to attend college. Taiji practice is what cured my poor physical condition, and allowed me to pursue studies at the university. At that time I realized what a miracle Taiji is, and decided to devote my whole life to studying and sharing this treasure with other people.


    As you know, Taiji is very popular nowadays. It seems, however, that a great number of people practice only the form. Do you feel that any real benefits can be derived from this kind of practice?
    People practice Taiji for mental and physical health and self defense. Taiji training is a system. It should cover qigong, forms, silk-reeling, pushhands, and weapons. For different reasons, some only receive or practice a part of the complete training. A good example is those who only practice forms. If practiced correctly, forms can build the connection between mind and body, improve flexibility and balance, and cultivate internal energy to a certain degree. However, form practice is much more efficient when combined with other parts of the system. We are living in a very fast-paced society. Our time is limited everyday. To get the most from the time we have to practice, we need a better training package. A Chinese saying illustrates this point well: "Shi ban gong bei", which, roughly translated, means if you practice something the best possible way, you need only spend half the time to learn it well. This is my goal in my workshops around the country: to introduce the whole training system to Taiji practitioners. It has been well received.
    Last edited by Lucas; 02-04-2011 at 11:45 AM.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Check out our March April 2011 issue for Evidence-Based Tai Chi and Qigong By Kevin Ott. Dr. Yang Yang, author of Taijiquan - The Art of Nurturing, The Science of Power, has developed and trademarked Evidence-Based Taiji (EBT)(tm). Anyone worked with it yet?

    Here's his website.
    No, but I met Dr. Yang when he visited my teacher's home in NY - he is a very gracious and thoughtful individual, and has applied a much-needed critical eye towards the contemporary practice of taiji; he is specifically interested in bringing the practice to healthcare professionals in a manner that they can utilize it within the current climate of healthcare provision; his credentials are first-rate and I have a great deal of respect for this man for moving the art forward into the 21st century;

  4. #4
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    "Evidence" of what? It is good for you? Duh!?!? Any kind of exercise is beneficial to people.
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Check out our March April 2011 issue for Evidence-Based Tai Chi and Qigong By Kevin Ott. Dr. Yang Yang, author of Taijiquan - The Art of Nurturing, The Science of Power, has developed and trademarked Evidence-Based Taiji (EBT)(tm). Anyone worked with it yet?

    Here's his website.
    He discovered a niche market in which to project taijiquan into the health and wellness marketplace and it is great! It is a lot better than the present pajama playing performance game of illusion, puffery and wudoneit!

  6. #6
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    You ought to check out Yang Yang's book

    In the end, Yang Yang offers an overview of academic research on qigong and taiji, mostly medical journal publications. Surely, it's a little dated now, but at the time of publication, it was one of the most comprehensive lists of scholarly publications. He's published a few scholarly research articles himself. The news article that's appearing in our magazine now highlights Dr. Yang's recent presentation at the 2010 Annual Conference for Integrative Oncology.

    We'll have more on this coming this week. Stay tuned.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Three Harmonies View Post
    "Evidence" of what? It is good for you? Duh!?!? Any kind of exercise is beneficial to people.
    Dr. Yang has an understanding of what sort of research is required in order for a modality like taiji to be accepted by the mainstream medical community; like it or not, it's the way thing work in this day and age, and Dr. Yang has made significant inroads into the PM&R / PT community as a result of his work, which includes being able to get reimbursement for said modality by insurance companies and Medicare. Instead of being a smart-asz, know-it-all, maybe you could try to appreciate what he is trying to do from a slightly less condescending perspective.

  8. #8
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    You would think with all your Taiji training your blood pressure would be lower!!
    I am not being condescending. I honestly want to know what is the "evidence?" I do not begrudge any many his success. Good for Yang Yang if he has figured out a way to bleed money back out of the insurance companies!
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  9. #9
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    Are we still on the taiji forum?

    Because for just a second, I thought I was reading the WC forum. So much peng, so little lu...

    @ Three Harmonies
    Take a look at Dr. Yang Yang's Curriculum Vitae (it is posted on his site, which I posted above). It lists his publications in academic journals. I'm sure if you chase those down, you'll find the 'evidence' in question. Dr. Yang has done a lot of fine research in the effects of taiji, especially in regards to geriatric issues. I salute his efforts.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  10. #10
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    A demonstration of lu

    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
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  11. #11
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    If you do longfist in slow motion, you will get the same benefit as you can get from Taiji. What Taiji cannot give you is the flexibility, endurance, and body alignment. If you can punch right hand and kick left leg at the same time (this kind of challenge does not exist in Taiji), you will have great body coordination. If you can bend your head down and kick your leg up (this kind of challenge also does not exist in Taiji), you will have great flexibility and single leg balance. Taiji for health is just far from sufficient. Taiji is my first style. I learned it when I was 7 years old. But Taiji will be the last style that I will use for "health" purpose for the reason that I have just described. I prefer to run 5 miles to make my heart strong and sweat at the same time.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 02-08-2011 at 03:34 PM.

  12. #12
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    YKW
    While I agree with your statement about doing LF slow, you are completely wrong with the rest of your post! I urge you to seek out Cartmell's latest projects on Sun Taiji (DVD and book) as the majority of said publications spend time on proper alignment, structure and posture.
    As for Taiji's applicability... that responsibility lies solely in the teachers hands. Taiji is a martial art, always has been. But if ones teacher does not teach the martial side of things then that is the fault of the teacher, not the art.

    Gene
    Thanks. I was just hoping someone could encapsulate the evidence since it was mentioned in the header of the thread and no one really has stated what has been "proven."

    JAB
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Because for just a second, I thought I was reading the WC forum. So much peng, so little lu...

    @ Three Harmonies
    Take a look at Dr. Yang Yang's Curriculum Vitae (it is posted on his site, which I posted above). It lists his publications in academic journals. I'm sure if you chase those down, you'll find the 'evidence' in question. Dr. Yang has done a lot of fine research in the effects of taiji, especially in regards to geriatric issues. I salute his efforts.
    Interesting to note that, in line with the old joke, he really does have a BS.

    Also very interesting to note that he's not an MD, and that he went from an MS in economics to a Ph D in kinesiology.

    His only actual 'medical' sounding qualification is his Ph D in which, despite having no medical or physical science qualifications, he studied Tai Chi - or did he?

    It says he studied quantitative and qualitative research regarding tai chi - which, given he had a social science MS, sounds more like he researched the research practices used to assess tai chi. It sounds deeply unusual that he got a Ph D 'in' Kinesiology - deeply suspicious, in fact, given his previous total lack of medical science, physiology background. It just doesn't add up or ring true.
    It's not worth a penny!

  14. #14
    I don't know....I think you are reaching here!

    All you have to do is go back and take your anatomy, physiology, biology, bio-mechanics etc.

    If you got the degree, you took the classes to get it!

    Are you implying he has a phony degree? If so, please present some evidence to support your position. Otherwise, you don't appear to know what you are talking about!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    I don't know....I think you are reaching here!

    All you have to do is go back and take your anatomy, physiology, biology, bio-mechanics etc.

    If you got the degree, you took the classes to get it!

    Are you implying he has a phony degree? If so, please present some evidence to support your position. Otherwise, you don't appear to know what you are talking about!
    Actually, it's quite a leap, from post graduate economics to a natural science/biology based degree. From economics to sociology, or another social science, sure, but not to kinesiology.

    To suggest that all one would need to do is take a few 'catch up' classes is a ridiculous statement. As economics and biologyhave exactly zero cross over, one would need to go back to undergraduate level and work through again. You are insulting the intelligence of people reading this thread to suggest such a ridiculous thing as he just had to do a few catch up classes.

    You obviously have zero knowledge of post graduate research - because it would be simply impossible for a natural science faculty to accept a research proposal from someone with no academic back ground in that field - it just wouldn't make any sense - how could they? Can youimagine him being quizzed by his research supervisors? "So what do you know about biology?" Er... I know about kondratieff waves...

    I don't think his Ph. D. is phoney - or, I have no evidence for that. I rather suspect that his Ph. D. is a social science degree in which he studied, as he actually states if you'd bothered to check, the methodoloy used by other people researching tai chi.

    I rather suspect that for business purposes, he's just smudged what his Ph. D. is actually in. He probably does have extensive knowledge of tai chi research - but I think it should be becoming fairly obvious that he's actually not formally qualified to assess medical data.

    As for 'all he had to do is take a few classes' - you're just making stuff up. Common sense tells you his Ph. D can't be in a biological science if he has no background in that field.
    Last edited by Water-quan; 02-09-2011 at 11:25 AM.
    It's not worth a penny!

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