Yip Man in Fatsan

[CFT]

Rik (TT), don't really know what you're asking for. You wanted a list of Yip Man's Foshan students, Paul provided the list. There are no other generations in Foshan taught by Yip Man himself. Just one generation before he left for HK.

Of that generation only Kwok Fu and Lun Gai taught openly AFAIK.

[chusauli]

What's interesting to see is Yip Man's WCK did a change from FutShan period to HK in a few short years.

Yip Man's WCK in Futshan is very close to Yuen Kay Shan, Yiu Choi, Yuen Chai Wan's WCK. His "inside to outside" Huen Sao between sections is still prominent, as opposed to the "outside" Lop Sao movement separating each section of a set.

Leung Sheung's WCK still bears a strong resemblance to the Futshan period teachings, as does Lok Yiu's. Lee Shing, Chu Shang Tin, Lo Man Kam, WSL (that would place these in 1949 - 1956) starts to look more like modern day Yip Man WCK, cumulating with Moy Yat, Ho Kam Ming, Ng Chan, and Koo Sang's period in the late 1958 through the 1960's.

[Graham H]

Yip Man's WCK in Futshan is very close to Yuen Kay Shan, Yiu Choi, Yuen Chai Wan's WCK. His "inside to outside" Huen Sao between sections is still prominent, as opposed to the "outside" Lop Sao movement separating each section of a set.

Can you explain this please? There is a good reason for the action of Huen sau to be repeated at so many times at certain points in the form. I don't understand why it would be an outside lop sau in any case unless the thinking is totally different which asks the questions why would it be?

In fact I have been reading all these posts on various threads and anybody would think Yip Man had many different versions of Ving Tsun. Very confusing for a system that should be simple, efficient and direct don't you think?

I think most of you WCK enjoy taking the scenic route!!!!

GH

[LoneTiger108]

Leung Sheung's WCK still bears a strong resemblance to the Futshan period teachings, as does Lok Yiu's. Lee Shing, Chu Shang Tin, Lo Man Kam, WSL (that would place these in 1949 - 1956) starts to look more like modern day Yip Man WCK, cumulating with Moy Yat, Ho Kam Ming, Ng Chan, and Koo Sang's period in the late 1958 through the 1960's.

As ever, I would say 'not so' with regards to Lee Shing.

Yes, commercially Lee Shing promoted Ip Man and his HK teachings, but we all know that he taught a wider curricullum to all his students from Austin Goh to Joe Lee to Joseph Cheng and my Sifu Joe Man.

Other than think he 'added' to what Ip Man taught him, I was always of the understanding that this was simply Wing Chun. Whether the 'other stuffs' are from Fatshan, Kulo or Hoxan (Lee Shings birthplace) doesn't really matter to me personally.

What I do know is that Ip Man knew what Lee Shing was doing! And this was one of the reasons Lee Shing took him as his Sifu and Ip Man took him as his student. Of course, he also trained with and was introduced to Ip Man by Lok Yiu and Jiu Wan, so the Fatshan flavour was already there.

Just passing on what I know.

[chusauli]

Can you explain this please? There is a good reason for the action of Huen sau to be repeated at so many times at certain points in the form. I don't understand why it would be an outside lop sau in any case unless the thinking is totally different which asks the questions why would it be?

In fact I have been reading all these posts on various threads and anybody would think Yip Man had many different versions of Ving Tsun. Very confusing for a system that should be simple, efficient and direct don't you think?

I think most of you WCK enjoy taking the scenic route!!!!

GH

Here we have some footage of Mai Gei Wong WCK Wong Nim Yi. He is playing the Siu Lien Tao set which is very similar to the Futshan group I mentioned. Notice he does not do Huen Sao, but a "Lop Sao" at the end of the sections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Ap3Hgfbqs

I think many people haven't seen a lot of Mainland China WCK as I have. Do a search and look at the others.

Maybe you could share your reasons why "Huen Sao at the end of every section".

[chusauli]

As ever, I would say 'not so' with regards to Lee Shing.

Yes, commercially Lee Shing promoted Ip Man and his HK teachings, but we all know that he taught a wider curricullum to all his students from Austin Goh to Joe Lee to Joseph Cheng and my Sifu Joe Man.

Other than think he 'added' to what Ip Man taught him, I was always of the understanding that this was simply Wing Chun. Whether the 'other stuffs' are from Fatshan, Kulo or Hoxan (Lee Shings birthplace) doesn't really matter to me personally.

What I do know is that Ip Man knew what Lee Shing was doing! And this was one of the reasons Lee Shing took him as his Sifu and Ip Man took him as his student. Of course, he also trained with and was introduced to Ip Man by Lok Yiu and Jiu Wan, so the Fatshan flavour was already there.

Just passing on what I know.

My point is compare the flavour of Lee Shing's Yip Man forms with Leung Sheung and Lok Yiu and the Futshan group Lun Gai and Gwok Fu, and Lee Shing bears more signatures in common with Chu Shang Tin, Lo Man Kam, WSL, Moy Yat, Ho Kam Ming, Ng Chan, and Koo Sang's WCK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dD6_7mzAQs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gls02U_t2Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-lTYRAieLI

[ShortBridge]

Here we have some footage of Mai Gei Wong WCK Wong Nim Yi. He is playing the Siu Lien Tao set which is very similar to the Futshan group I mentioned. Notice he does not do Huen Sao, but a "Lop Sao" at the end of the sections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Ap3Hgfbqs

I think many people haven't seen a lot of Mainland China WCK as I have. Do a search and look at the others.

Maybe you could share your reasons why "Huen Sao at the end of every section".

This is a really interesting video, thank you for sharing it. I'll want to watch it again later and the others you posted as well.

There are a lot of very cool subtleties in here that I want to take time to consider. For now, it appears that he is expressing some of his vertical punches with a protruding first knuckle (I don't know if that's officially pheonix eye or not). Do you see what I'm seeing and agree that I'm interpreting it correctly?

Again, thank you for sharing this.

[bennyvt]

Both gwok fu and lun gai do the outside hoon sao. After talking about it and showing how they do it I realised we do the same move while doing poon sao and we change arms, ie one inside and one outside hoonsao.

[chusauli]

This is a really interesting video, thank you for sharing it. I'll want to watch it again later and the others you posted as well.

There are a lot of very cool subtleties in here that I want to take time to consider. For now, it appears that he is expressing some of his vertical punches with a protruding first knuckle (I don't know if that's officially pheonix eye or not). Do you see what I'm seeing and agree that I'm interpreting it correctly?

Again, thank you for sharing this.

You're welcome!

Yes, its a phoenix eye fist after the Lop or Ngoi (Outside) Huen... in other lineages, its a backfist. Originally all SLT/SNT has the same opening moves as seen in the Yip Man Biu Jee set. Yip Man changed them to simplify it in HK.

[chusauli]

Both gwok fu and lun gai do the outside hoon sao. After talking about it and showing how they do it I realised we do the same move while doing poon sao and we change arms, ie one inside and one outside hoonsao.

Yes, the Huen Sao is opposite in HK from Fut Shan.

[ShortBridge]

Pardon my ignorance, but is that a consistent Pheonix Eye expression to the type that would appear is say White Eyebrow?

[chusauli]

Pardon my ignorance, but is that a consistent Pheonix Eye expression to the type that would appear is say White Eyebrow?

John,

I'll let you decide. This young man is pretty good at the first major set of Bak Mei (White Eyebrow). Do you think it has the same signature in body movement as WCK?

http://www.youtube.com/user/whitetig.../1/03iGbETtoE4

[ShortBridge]

Hard to tell, he won't hold still! (I guess that's the point, huh?)

Certainly some familiar movement and expression in there. I've never had the pleasure of meeting a pak mai player, hope to someday.

Thanks again for posting.

[bennyvt]

yeh its a pheonix fist, gwok fu and lun gai do that too. You see heaps of mainland people use it over the tan sao when rolling. It works well, unless you extend and face it. The prolem is that it doesnt have as much control with the elbow, it seems to slip past. When talking to them I asked if its like the idea of the first bit in chum kiu. Ie instead of fingers you do the pheonix fist. They agreed same idea. Slipping over when you can drive through with the elbow.
Oh never meet gwok fu, my teacher is good friends with him, I have met lun gai. I have trained with their guys but.

[Graham H]

Here we have some footage of Mai Gei Wong WCK Wong Nim Yi. He is playing the Siu Lien Tao set which is very similar to the Futshan group I mentioned. Notice he does not do Huen Sao, but a "Lop Sao" at the end of the sections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Ap3Hgfbqs

I think many people haven't seen a lot of Mainland China WCK as I have. Do a search and look at the others.

Maybe you could share your reasons why "Huen Sao at the end of every section".

No need. I watched this instead and the Chi Sau at the beginning told me all I need to know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH9cb...eature=related

Isn't anybody going to offer an explanation of why we do Huen Sau in the dummy form???

GH