Amount of So Fa Necessary in Mantis

[gunglihchuan]

I think a lot of good discussion has been explored about Northern Mantis in this forum.

I think focusing on less material is just practical. Many would argue that kung fu has many more facets than just self-defense and I agree.

One also has to consider however that Kung Fu is a martial art and that for it to be respected and continued it must provide excellent self defense in a reasonable amount of time. I think Kung Fu is something that is mastered over a lifetime but you should be very proficient with a lot of hard work in a reasonable amount of years. I would say about 3-5 years.

After 18 years of martial arts training and 12 years of Northern Mantis I practice 18 applications from my hand forms everyday.

I think that this is enough.

What does everyone else think?

We should also think of this principle as it applies to weapons training as well.

[-N-]

[...]

One also has to consider however that Kung Fu is a martial art and that for it to be respected and continued it must provide excellent self defense in a reasonable amount of time.

[...]

After 18 years of martial arts training and 12 years of Northern Mantis I practice 18 applications from my hand forms everyday.

I think that this is enough.

What does everyone else think?

You don't even need 18 applications/techniques to have a usable set of tools.

shin kick
sweep kick
groin kick
front kick
roundhouse kick
grapple punch
hook punch
horse punch

along with mobility are enough to get you by.

[-N-]

Even those are more than you need just to stay alive.

[MightyB]

I believe a person can, with diligent practice, nearly master the hand to hand portion of 7* by practicing LGY's Sub Sa Lo and it's applications, and by concentrating on mastering this short list of techniques:

(spelling badly in phonetic Cantonese - and I have problems sometimes with the tones... so)

Diu Sau, (hook)
Ou Lou Choi, (hook, control, and punch motion)
Tai Sa Na Ding (as a combo with the two techniques below - this is tai mountain crash)
Ying Min Chit Don (punch straight to the face)
Ha Fu Tau Som (and stealing the heart)
Yu Jom (waist chopping)
Tu Sau (intercepting hand used as a transition to set up traps and combinations)
Foom Sau & Bung Choi & Foom Sau Tong Choi (actually both Foom Sau techs like the trap back fist and trap uppercut)
Chon Toi (push kick)
and shin stomp.

[mooyingmantis]

Gunglihchuan,

Excellent topic!

I believe that less is more when it comes to effective PM fighting. Plus, I guarantee my students that they can fight effectively within three to six months of training.

My favorite Mantis techniques and the amount of time I have trained them:

Yang Palm, Inner Hook, Yin Palm - 35 years
Hook, Embrace, Pluck - 26 years
Rolling Block, Colliding Claw - 26 years
Hook hand, Gathering Punch, Uprooting Kick - 26 years
Thousand Eye Mandarin Duck Kick - 35 years

I've done these techniques so long that they are as natural as breathing. And I've never found a fight that needed more than these five techniques.

[gunglihchuan]

Thank you Richard,

I have always believed that refining the essentials was what made any system great. I would like to see more schools adopt smaller curriculums and give their students the value for their hard work.

I applaud you for teaching your style in this manner!

Kung fu systems are rich and diverse but you want lay people to be astounded at their effectiveness and have these systems spread and be respected.

There were many people I studied with for over seven years that did not even expect that they could use their Kung Fu for self defense. That type of attitude will severely damage the reputation of any fighting system.

[YouKnowWho]

There were many people I studied with for over seven years that did not even expect that they could use their Kung Fu for self defense. That type of attitude will severely damage the reputation of any fighting system.

If people can just appreciate the fun part of sparring/wrestling, they will sparring/wrestling more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hv17oABxEU

[MightyB]

along with mobility are enough to get you by.

so fot (hand work)
bo fot (foot work)
sun yin (body positioning)

all are important and without one, you don't have any -

The most difficult to master is the body positioning - and truly learn yao (soft - yielding). Especially in the hips.

[-N-]

so fot (hand work)
bo fot (foot work)
sun yin (body positioning)

all are important and without one, you don't have any -

The most difficult to master is the body positioning - and truly learn yao (soft - yielding). Especially in the hips.

+1

Yep.

[-N-]

I believe a person can, with diligent practice, nearly master the hand to hand portion of 7* by practicing LGY's Sub Sa Lo and it's applications, and by concentrating on mastering this short list of techniques:

(spelling badly in phonetic Cantonese - and I have problems sometimes with the tones... so)

Diu Sau, (hook)
Ou Lou Choi, (hook, control, and punch motion)
Tai Sa Na Ding (as a combo with the two techniques below - this is tai mountain crash)
Ying Min Chit Don (punch straight to the face)
Ha Fu Tau Som (and stealing the heart)
Yu Jom (waist chopping)
Tu Sau (intercepting hand used as a transition to set up traps and combinations)
Foom Sau & Bung Choi & Foom Sau Tong Choi (actually both Foom Sau techs like the trap back fist and trap uppercut)
Chon Toi (push kick)
and shin stomp.

I don't even bother with diu sau, ou lou choi, or yiu jom to get people up and running.

Those take more finesse that comes later.

[mooyingmantis]

I believe a person can, with diligent practice, nearly master the hand to hand portion of 7* by practicing LGY's Sub Sa Lo and it's applications...

Mike Biggie was a stickler for 14 Roads. Up and down the floor, up and down the floor! Excellent techniques and a great way to build stamina.

[EarthDragon]

my shifu always said master 1 block, 1 punch, everything else is just for fun.

If you have a great parry and a lightning quick, sharp powerful counter fighting is but a split second. the rest of the stuff is for us to master oursevles..

[ShaolinDan]

Personally I think Fa, So, La, Te, Mi, Rae, and Do are all you really need.





(I'm so sorry...I just couldn't help myself. )

[TaichiMantis]

I sure can tell the difference between classmates who take the hard qigong class (iron shirt training) and those who don't. Hands ,feet, legs are just heavier...and they take harder hits than anyone else.

With any class, some are better at reading intent, some have faster reaction time, some are more accurate in their strikes and techniques....all time and practice.

I like how many mantis techniques involve avoiding the hit while doing damage or incapacitating the weapon.

[mantis108]

Well, as far as Sao Fa (Shou Fa) within the CCK TCPM system goes, GM Chiu officially taught a set of 64 not including the variations and counters. My mentor/teacher Galen Fok taught about 30 of them.

I generally teach the first section of 12, which I believe is more than enough for average students. Here is a clip:

http://www.youtube.com/user/cyrano20.../1/rvyWRD17daA

enjoy.

Mantis108