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Thread: any good wing tsun/ wing chun school in london

  1. #1

    any good wing tsun/ wing chun school in london

    hi guys i am new here
    i am interested to start wing chun classes for self deffence and fitness, and the sort of wing chung i like is the jose grados, or victor gutierez style of wing chun, because they teach you drills on how to apply in real life situation.
    any recomendation on which schools have good teaches that don't hold back and teaches the art properly, and how to apply in the street.

    i live in south east london, was considering uk wing chun association in lee green, or victor kan in se1.
    or any other schools that teaches the sort of things mentioned above.

    i appreciate you help.

    thank you

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by edreel200 View Post
    hi guys i am new here
    i am interested to start wing chun classes for self deffence and fitness, and the sort of wing chung i like is the jose grados, or victor gutierez style of wing chun, because they teach you drills on how to apply in real life situation.
    any recomendation on which schools have good teaches that don't hold back and teaches the art properly, and how to apply in the street.

    i live in south east london, was considering uk wing chun association in lee green, or victor kan in se1.
    or any other schools that teaches the sort of things mentioned above.

    i appreciate you help.

    thank you
    I have heard good things about Victor Kan. Perhaps you can drop by his kwoon and have a look.

    I have also heard good things about Samuel Kwok, whose kwoon has a branch in South London, I believe.

  3. #3
    hi hardwork108.

    thanks for the reply mate, quite a few people said they heard good things about victor kan, but no one yet actualy told of his or her experience when they visited there. or trained there

    i read on the net from a couple of people that went to have a look and they only allowed them 5 mins to look and they described the atmosphere like a prison, strict and not friedly. also i heard somewhere else that victor kan is not a friendly person himself.
    the reason i want to gather as much info on schools before i go look round, is because i don't have a lot of time, i work i have a family, and unfortunately i can only go visit one school a week.

    so that's why i am trying to get as much info as i can on the web, before paying a school a visit.

    cheers mate

  4. #4

    WSLVT in London

    Please have a look at www.londonwslwingchun.com

    Classes in Stratford, Tooting and Victoria

    Jason

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by edreel200 View Post
    hi hardwork108.

    thanks for the reply mate, quite a few people said they heard good things about victor kan, but no one yet actualy told of his or her experience when they visited there. or trained there

    i read on the net from a couple of people that went to have a look and they only allowed them 5 mins to look and they described the atmosphere like a prison, strict and not friedly. also i heard somewhere else that victor kan is not a friendly person himself.
    the reason i want to gather as much info on schools before i go look round, is because i don't have a lot of time, i work i have a family, and unfortunately i can only go visit one school a week.

    so that's why i am trying to get as much info as i can on the web, before paying a school a visit.

    cheers mate
    Hello Edreel,

    Even though most of my experience is in Wing Chun, I have never trained with Victor Kan. When I spent 4 years in London relatively recently, I looked for Wing Chun schools in London that practiced a Mainland Chinese (as opposed to Hong Kong) lineage similar to what I have experience in.

    However, I was unsuccessful. Fortunately I found a Southern Mantis School that taught the real deal kung fu. My sifu in that school mentioned in passing that as far as Wing Chun sifus in London go, Victor Kan recommendable. Also, he seems to have been around for decades. So, that may be a positive sign, eventhough nowadays one must still be careful when choosing any kung fu school.

    I would suggest that you visit their school and perhaps ask to take a try out class, or classes. That would be the best way to find out, otherwise you would be relying on other people's perception of the school, which may or may not be right.

    Anyway, if you do visit and train at his school, then it will be interesting to read your take of the whole thing.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardwork108 View Post
    Hello Edreel,

    Even though most of my experience is in Wing Chun, I have never trained with Victor Kan. When I spent 4 years in London relatively recently, I looked for Wing Chun schools in London that practiced a Mainland Chinese (as opposed to Hong Kong) lineage similar to what I have experience in.

    However, I was unsuccessful. Fortunately I found a Southern Mantis School that taught the real deal kung fu. My sifu in that school mentioned in passing that as far as Wing Chun sifus in London go, Victor Kan recommendable. Also, he seems to have been around for decades. So, that may be a positive sign, eventhough nowadays one must still be careful when choosing any kung fu school.

    I would suggest that you visit their school and perhaps ask to take a try out class, or classes. That would be the best way to find out, otherwise you would be relying on other people's perception of the school, which may or may not be right.

    Anyway, if you do visit and train at his school, then it will be interesting to read your take of the whole thing.
    thanks hardwork 108 for the advise mate, i will probably do just that.
    another thing is i got some good feedback on a sifu pasco david who was taught by victor kan so i will check him out as well
    i always had a passion for wing chun to do it since i was in my twenties, but never had a chance due to family commitment, so thats why i dont want to waste some years then realise i was taught the watered down version of wing chun, i think the best thing
    is go and have a look for my self.
    but can i ask you when i go and have a look what are the things to look out for or ask to determin that this is a good school, or this is a good sifu?

    cheers for that mate

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by edreel200 View Post
    thanks hardwork 108 for the advise mate, i will probably do just that.
    another thing is i got some good feedback on a sifu pasco david who was taught by victor kan so i will check him out as well
    i always had a passion for wing chun to do it since i was in my twenties, but never had a chance due to family commitment, so thats why i dont want to waste some years then realise i was taught the watered down version of wing chun, i think the best thing
    is go and have a look for my self.
    but can i ask you when i go and have a look what are the things to look out for or ask to determin that this is a good school, or this is a good sifu?

    cheers for that mate
    Hey, you are welcome.

    Before I answer your question, let me just say that my kung fu experience, both in Wing Chun and in Southern Praying Mantis has been or the Traditional variety. That means the basics, including the correct roots, angles and lines are drilled into one before he does anything else.

    That means, looking at a new school, I would not be looking for the "lets spar from day one, so that we can learn to fight quickly" system. In my humble opinion, which is based on experience, as far as real kung fu is concerned, it is best to learn certain aspects first before going on to actual fighting training. These include, proper rooting, without which one's kung fu becomes just a glorified form of kick boxing.

    Then one would need to learn at least the basics to proper dantien breathing, which despite popular belief, incorporates more than breathing out when you are hitting somebody.

    Going on...many kung fu styles have their distinct way of punching. That means it is better to learn how to punch properly, before one decides to stress test oneself during actual combat training.

    So, what I am getting at is that if I walk into a school and see new students/beginners sparring then I will not be impressed. If I see the advanced students sparring, without using kung fu rooting, then I will not be impressed either.

    Also, in both of my Wing Chun and Southern Mantis practice, weight training was discouraged. Both schools had different, but potent methodologies to build power. So, Wing Chun schools that used weight training is something else I would avoid.

    Of course, having said that, I know there are ways to weight train in such styles without contradicting certain principles, which are usually the internal ones. So, when you don't come across any sifu who can teach you the alternative ways of building power (that is the Internal way- which has nothing to do with shooting death rays out of ones hands....lol), then perhaps some careful weight training may be the order of the day.


    Yet, I have seen zero weight training in the Mantis school, while having experienced immense power generation. The same goes for the Mainland Chinese Wing Chun, albeit using a different power generation and body unity mechanism to that of the Mantis. So, there are other ways for power and strength development, unfortunately not many schools teach them (mainly because they have absolutely no idea).

    Of course, at the end of the day, if you personally, are looking for "quick results" then you may want to train in a "modernized" Wing Chun school, that will spar (like in kick boxing), and do weight training. However, if you are looking for the more traditional approach then find one that will teach you the basics thoroughly.

    Once you learn the basics of Wing Chun - roots, posture, relaxation, breathing and the actual principles and concepts, then you will be ahead of most people who claim Wing Chun knowledge, yes even some so called instructors, so prevelant in this day and age of Mcdojos/kwoons.

    So, to conclude. I would personally look for schools that take their time in teaching the basics. Schools, who are not concernd in making the classes too entertaining for the students. Small sized classes are another aspect you should be looking for. If it looks boring then there is a good chance that it is good, but of course, not always.

    Also, I would avoid schools that say, "we have mixed our WC with, bla, bla, bla, to make it street effective. Personally, if I see that, then the "clueless sifu" alert goes off in my head.

    Anyway, I talked too much. I hope the points come across clearly.
    Last edited by Hardwork108; 02-19-2011 at 11:35 PM.

  8. #8
    Edreel

    If you are looking for good quality Ving Tsun in London then contact Desmond Spencer who runs several classes in different areas of London. He doesn't advertise but you can find his contact details on Philipp Bayers website or I can provide.

    Desmond Spencer was one of Victor Kans top students for many years but after meeting Philipp his idea of Ving Tsun was changed as it was for me.

    I used to learn from students of Victor Kan and Sam Kwok a long time ago and wasn't happy with what I was being taught. Each to their own I guess but Philipp Bayers Ving Tsun is second to none in my opinion.

    Graham H
    Last edited by Sihing73; 02-20-2011 at 07:55 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Yeh id go for the bayer guy over Victor Kan.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardwork108 View Post
    Hey, you are welcome.

    Before I answer your question, let me just say that my kung fu experience, both in Wing Chun and in Southern Praying Mantis has been or the Traditional variety. That means the basics, including the correct roots, angles and lines are drilled into one before he does anything else.

    That means, looking at a new school, I would not be looking for the "lets spar from day one, so that we can learn to fight quickly" system. In my humble opinion, which is based on experience, as far as real kung fu is concerned, it is best to learn certain aspects first before going on to actual fighting training. These include, proper rooting, without which one's kung fu becomes just a glorified form of kick boxing.

    Then one would need to learn at least the basics to proper dantien breathing, which despite popular belief, incorporates more than breathing out when you are hitting somebody.

    Going on...many kung fu styles have their distinct way of punching. That means it is better to learn how to punch properly, before one decides to stress test oneself during actual combat training.

    So, what I am getting at is that if I walk into a school and see new students/beginners sparring then I will not be impressed. If I see the advanced students sparring, without using kung fu rooting, then I will not be impressed either.

    Also, in both of my Wing Chun and Southern Mantis practice, weight training was discouraged. Both schools had different, but potent methodologies to build power. So, Wing Chun schools that used weight training is something else I would avoid.

    Of course, having said that, I know there are ways to weight train in such styles without contradicting certain principles, which are usually the internal ones. So, when you don't come across any sifu who can teach you the alternative ways of building power (that is the Internal way- which has nothing to do with shooting death rays out of ones hands....lol), then perhaps some careful weight training may be the order of the day.


    Yet, I have seen zero weight training in the Mantis school, while having experienced immense power generation. The same goes for the Mainland Chinese Wing Chun, albeit using a different power generation and body unity mechanism to that of the Mantis. So, there are other ways for power and strength development, unfortunately not many schools teach them (mainly because they have absolutely no idea).

    Of course, at the end of the day, if you personally, are looking for "quick results" then you may want to train in a "modernized" Wing Chun school, that will spar (like in kick boxing), and do weight training. However, if you are looking for the more traditional approach then find one that will teach you the basics thoroughly.

    Once you learn the basics of Wing Chun - roots, posture, relaxation, breathing and the actual principles and concepts, then you will be ahead of most people who claim Wing Chun knowledge, yes even some so called instructors, so prevelant in this day and age of Mcdojos/kwoons.

    So, to conclude. I would personally look for schools that take their time in teaching the basics. Schools, who are not concernd in making the classes too entertaining for the students. Small sized classes are another aspect you should be looking for. If it looks boring then there is a good chance that it is good, but of course, not always.

    Also, I would avoid schools that say, "we have mixed our WC with, bla, bla, bla, to make it street effective. Personally, if I see that, then the "clueless sifu" alert goes off in my head.

    Anyway, I talked too much. I hope the points come across clearly.
    well i suppose your right in what ur saying and i value your advice, but the thing is i am not a young man anymore, i am in early fourties, and i feel if i joint a school that take me say 10 or 15 years to become good at wc , then by that time i will be an old man. but in the other hand i don't want to be taught wc that dont serve me well in my life.
    you mentioned when you check out a school, one of the questions you ask them is do they do any sparring if yes then you walk away. i thought the school that does sparring , and real life drills is good cos it helps with your reflexes and prepares you for real life situations.
    don't schools that teach cwc spar at all? or when do they start sparring?
    anyway i am still new to all this, and forgive me if some of my questions sound stupid
    i am just trying to learn cos there is a lot of info on the web that leaves some newbie like me scratching his head.

    i appreciate your help.
    Last edited by edreel200; 02-20-2011 at 06:21 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    Edreel

    If you are looking for good quality Ving Tsun in London then contact Desmond Spencer who runs several classes in different areas of London. He doesn't advertise but you can find his contact details on Philipp Bayers website or I can provide.

    Desmond Spencer was one of Victor Kans top students for many years but after meeting Philipp his idea of Ving Tsun was changed as it was for me.

    I used to learn from students of Victor Kan and Sam Kwok a long time ago and wasn't happy with what I was being taught. Each to their own I guess but Philipp Bayers Ving Tsun is second to none in my opinion.

    Graham H
    thanks mate. i got his number from phillip bayer website, i will give him a call tomorrow.

    cheers

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
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    2,252
    Quote Originally Posted by edreel200 View Post
    well i suppose your right in what ur saying and i value your advice, but the thing is i am not a young man anymore, i am in early fourties, and i feel if i joint a school that take me say 10 or 15 years to become good at wc , then by that time i will be an old man. but in the other hand i don't want to be taught wc that dont serve me well in my life.
    you mentioned when you check out a school, one of the questions you ask them is do they do any sparring if yes then you walk away. i thought the school that does sparring , and real life drills is good cos it helps with your reflexes and prepares you for real life situations.
    don't schools that teach cwc spar at all? or when do they start sparring?
    anyway i am still new to all this, and forgive me if some of my questions sound stupid
    i am just trying to learn cos there is a lot of info on the web that leaves some newbie like me scratching his head.

    i appreciate your help.
    Hi Edreel
    I think you should follow your own thoughts.... logic over nonsense
    GlennR

  13. #13
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    Feb 2008
    Location
    Newcastle australia
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    576
    I think he means if you spar in the first weeks etc. You should be sparing once you can actually do some of the moves. Sparing straight away just ingrains bad habits that take heaps to get out. Get the moves then spar with it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bennyvt View Post
    I think he means if you spar in the first weeks etc. You should be sparing once you can actually do some of the moves. Sparing straight away just ingrains bad habits that take heaps to get out. Get the moves then spar with it.
    ok i understand. well i will go and visit some of these schools and see it for my self then make a decision.

    cheers mate

  15. #15
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    Where abouts in SE London are you?

    My instructor teaches in Lewisham/Catford, just behind the Mosque.
    When it does happen, it's fast and hard and over quick. Either I'm standing or he's standing. That's Real.
    nospam


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