Bad the Fukc Ass
i will say the people who have made a good life for themselves that were raised in the ghetto generally have a better grasp of reality than many other 'well to do' people. tends to happen when you have lived on both sides of the tracks and built your life off of hard work.
For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.
NIII
yeah doncha just shake your head at middle class people who think they worked harder for what they have than somebody in a lower socio-economic bracket who has less...Originally Posted by Lucas
sure, all socio-economic classes have their bad seeds, but its not fair to stereotype whole segments of your fellow american brothers based on some examples of lazyness, criminality etc etc...
thats no different than assuming somebody who inherited a fanancial dynasty doesnyt work hard to maintain it, that their money makes money and the actual owners just live it up... sure there is lots of that... but its not fair to stereotype them all based on that...
Bad the Fukc Ass
we cant let paris hilton ruin it for all the trust fund babies!
For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.
NIII
Congresswoman Revealed Abortion Ahead Of Vote To Defund Planned Parenthood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2gy...layer_embedded
NIII
Just for the record. Planned Parenthood was created by Margaret Sanger who was a proponent of Eugenics.
Teddy Roosevelt was a huge proponent of Eugenics as well. Look it up, it's common knowledge. So Eugenics is all about stengthening society through good breeding. Weed out undesirables and stuff like that. Then these guys go and start a womens clinic for the marginalized and call it Planned Parenthood. What do you think their ultimate agenda would be?
Banned
No disconnect at all. Inner city public schools are just as accredited as public schools in well-to-do neighborhoods.
And they can't be that bad anyway, liberals told us that integrated bussing was a great idea. That was where they shipped kids from the suburbs into 'the hood' for the STATED goal of "integration". It failed horribly. Integrated bussing didn't last long, even the liberals had to admit it was an epic failure that really only created more problems. FYI, I was bussed and I (and my parents) hated it. That was where I first discovered that liberal 'feel good' solutions/programs that sound good on paper usually fail when enacted. And even at that young age I noticed that only middle class kids were bussed in 'the hood', the rich kids were not. Of course the rich part of town was where all the liberals on the City Council were from....
And in Texas, we have laws such as the one below, that treats all schools as equal in terms of college admissions:
"The Texas legislature passed House Bill 588 in 1997 in response to the 1996 federal court ruling in Hopwood vs. the State of Texas that struck down an affirmative action admissions program at the University of Texas School of Law. The law requires each public college and university to admit automatically any student who has graduated in either of the two preceding academic years with a grade-point average in the top 10% of the student's graduating class. After admitting all automatic qualifiers, the schools must admit other applicants based a number of academic and socioeconomic factors. According to a 2005 report by the Texas House Research Organization, the top 10% law has had the greatest impact at the state's flagship institutions."
Source:
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0116.htm
So if you are in the Top 10% of your graduating class you CANNOT BE DENIED in ANY public college or university, no matter if you graduted in the State's richest district, or the State's poorest. Sounds like equal opportunity to me.
Banned
SO true. I've always said a huge problem the US is facing is the rise of the "political class". These are people who are either born into politics or raised into it from a young age. They really do not experience 'real life' and when they get elected they have no clue of the needs of middle class America, yet they are in charge of enacting new laws. It's a recipe for disaster.
Because they have worked for it. Middle class means you are not the working poor or the non-working welfare types, nor are you rich. You experience both being a 'have' and a 'have not'. While the poor and the rich only experience one half of those. Middle class people are America, imo. They work for what they have, and they only want their kids to have more than them. They are the hardest working too. They don't get Gov't assistance, yet they are not rich so they don't have personal accountants, tax shelters, new cars every 2 years, etc.
NIII
if all these schools are just as good as the next, then why was "bussing" such a failure???
do you really believe an inner city ghetto school, with like one token white student, is as good as the schools in the suburbs??? on average??? please... thats just rediculous...
you say you were shipped in... from where??? you were white middle class shipped into the hood??? and you hated it why??? and you felt all the academic standards were the same at all the public schools you attended???
all liberal/conservative smearing aside... do you feel you would get as good an education at the inner city school that you would have gotten at a school closer to home??? and aside from educational standards, do you feel the conditions in and around everything to do with the inner city school was just as good as its suburban counterpart???
all laws and rules aside... i dont care what its supposed to be, i care what it is... so dont quote the rules... you really feel that each has the same opportunities???
i guess the test results are just cause poor kids are lazy like their welfare food stamp loving parents huh.......
so, i dunno, people like george bush, his brother and his father??? all raised in private schools by political parents and later went off to other states to pretend like they grew up there??? like florida and texas... george bush isnt texan in any way shape or form... hes a smug lil andover rich boy who was silver spoon fed from day one... by your logic this man should be the biggest disaster... same with his father...BJJBLUE...
SO true. I've always said a huge problem the US is facing is the rise of the "political class". These are people who are either born into politics or raised into it from a young age. They really do not experience 'real life' and when they get elected they have no clue of the needs of middle class America, yet they are in charge of enacting new laws. It's a recipe for disaster.
but people you hate are newcommers like obama... im willing to bet you dont like ron paul much either, huh???
blue... if everyone has an equal shot, like you say... that means that somebody poor who has less than somebody middle class has not worked as hard... and thats bullsh1t... it shows you dont understand at all... you can deny that all you want but your statements speak for themselves...
if A and B have equal opportunity and A has more than B that means A worked harder than B... and, on average, thats just not true... and thats not even taking into consideration the people who want to work more but cant for one reason or another... like no jobs available or already working 18 hours a day for 8 bucks an hour...
do you work 18 hours a day blue??? would you work 18 hours a day for 8 bucks an hour blue??? if that was your only opportunity to stay afloat would you feel as if the world is fair and you had a fair shake??? while some brat drives by in mommys suv... or some guy who makes 80 bucks an hour and works 5 hours a day 4 days a week because mommy bought them an education???
are you really gonna sit there and tell me that you believe everyone is on equal footing... and dont spout off laws and ideals... we are talking about what the world is really like, not the american dream world that only exists in principle for too many people...
Banned
Mainly two reasons:
1) When you forcibly put groups of people together from very different demographics, you will have problems. I saw ALOT of fights over race, it was actually alot like these prison documentary shows, kids separated themselves by race and and location (the kids bussed from North Austin stuck together, the kids bussed from South Austin stick together, and the Eastside kids stuck together. One of the primary issues bussing was supposed to fix, integration, only got WORSE.
2) Upwardly mobile familes who had worked hard to leave the bad neighborhoods were now having their kids FORCIBLY sent to schools in the very neighborhoods they had worked their butts off to get away from!
First off, it wasnt a "token white kid" that was bussed in. At the school I was bussed into the bussed in kids were around 30%-40% of the students IIRC. Second, I'll admit the suburbs schools are better, but I say it's due primarily to parent participation. We have an Eastside HS (Johnston) that is always on the verge of being closed by the State over poor performance. Everytime it looks like they are going to close it, they parents of kids who go there always protest, usually it's all 5 of them. But when Austin considered closing higher performing schools to cut a budget gap, you had hundreds and hundreds of parents protesting. IMO, parents are the biggest factor, and like it or not, parents from the bad parts of town just do not actively participate in school issues like parents from better parts of town.
I was shipped from South Austin, the Junior High I was bussed to was on the East Side of town. We also had kids bussed from North Austin as well.
I disliked it for many reasons. First, I had to wake up about an hour earlier because of the long bus ride, and I'm not a morning person. Second, I don't like seeing the evils of racism on a daily basis, and I did over there. I never encountered near that amount of racial strife in schools that were non-bussing schools. The academic standards were the same as the 'better' schools, that part was actually ok. Of course the academic performance was alot worse. We actually had 2 Eastside kids who drove to school! And again, this was JUNIOR HIGH! And yes, those guys were old enough to drive, 16 in Texas. And though they only came to goof off in class, show off their cars, and hit on the 13 year old girls, they were not thrown out of school despite all this.
And as I said before, despite the stated goal of "integration", the children of the rich, white liberals were not forcibly integrated....
In many ways, I admit no. But you do have to pass the same Statewide test to graduate, and the Top 10% of graduates from ALL schools were guaranteed a slot in college.
This is America, so yes, they have the exact same opportunity as anyone else. Of course some people may have to work harder to achieve it (life isn't fair) than others. I actually admire the kids who do come from a poorer family that become very successful more than rich kids who do it. In my industry, we have ALOT of people from poor countries that come here to finish their higher education (if need be) and to work and to become American citizens. They actually start out BEHIND poor American kids because these people aren't raised speaking English and they have to acclimate to an entirely different country. So kids born in the hood have a mucher better 'starting position' than these guys, yet I work with alot more engineers from poorer countries than I do with people who grew up poor in America. That says alot about American entitlement mentality.
Banned
Notice I didn't say being born into a political family was the ONLY factor.
Yes, Obama is political class to me because as a child he was interested/raised to be a politician. Look at his education, and the fact he never held a PRODUCTIVE private sector job. Sure, Bush was born to parents who were pretty well off (and remember his father risked his life for this country and almost lost it if not for a submarine rescue). But Bush went out and got business loans, did fail at times, and did succeed very well at times. So he learned lessons from this, which I say is VERY important. Look ,lets be honest here, Obama is clueless about the private sector. Absolutely clueless. He has to bring in CEO and COC types to fill him in on what to do to help businesses! And even then he is too **** arrogant to listen to them.
Again, as I said in the post above, we ALL have the same opportunites. Of course I admit some will have to work harder then others because of their situations, but what's so horrible about hard work? Is it now a bad thing?
It's against labor laws to work over 16 hours a day, but I have done it when I was younger. People do that to get ahead, this should not surprise you. I now make over THREE TIMES what I made when I started in this industry about 15 years ago. I did that through hard work, furthering my education, and being very flexible when others are not (like working holidays, long hours, cancelling dinner plans, etc, etc). People do this.
And yes, I know rich kids get it easier. Though I was bussed into Junior High, my last two years of High School were at a school where my parents made under the median income of other parents. My parent scraped up money to get me a '73 Bug, while other kids were driving brand new IROCs, Saleen Mustings, stepside pick-ups, and some drove fully restored classic cars. It didn't make me bitter, it didn't make me despise rich people. It didn't make me a socialist. It made me tell myself I would bust my butt to be able to buy those things FOR MYSELF. That's why I say we all have the same opportunities. My father only wanted me and my brother to have more than he did, it's part of the American dream. And he did. I have some nice toys at my age my father couldn't affod to buy when he was my age. So when I see myslef achieve more than my parents, I know others can even if they start out 'behind' me. There really is no excuse for a kid who is able-bodied, and with enough intelligence to graduate HS (which isn't alot btw) to fail in this country.
Last edited by BJJ-Blue; 02-22-2011 at 08:24 AM.
Banned
Yeah it had nothing at all to do with population density, student/teacher ratio, socioeconomic status....
Because the rich kids could go to private schooling or just drive to the school of choice. Your assumption is self defeating. Socioeconomic status...And as I said before, despite the stated goal of "integration", the children of the rich, white liberals were not forcibly integrated....
Most of which go to the rich white kids, seeing as how you know, they make up most of that 10%...In many ways, I admit no. But you do have to pass the same Statewide test to graduate, and the Top 10% of graduates from ALL schools were guaranteed a slot in college.
You're naive as ****...forget equal outcome, we haven't come close to equal opportunity.This is America, so yes, they have the exact same opportunity as anyone else.
Which by definition isn't really "exactly the same opportunity" now is it? Not that it needs to be exactly to same. But the deck is incredibly stacked...Of course some people may have to work harder to achieve it
It says a lot about the lack of teachers forcing inner city classes crammed full, it says a lot about lack of textbooks in our classrooms, it says a lot about empty school libraries, lack of afterschool tutoring, lack of self esteem from the feeling of no way out, and yes to an extent...lack of parental involvement. But its so much more. You have a very narrow world view. You think you understand, but really you are rather clueless. You admit you never even finished college. Did you even start? What experience do you have to make you think you know what its like to try to claw your way out of a gutter? Not trying to be an ass, serious question. What makes you think you can comment on the struggles of another human being?So kids born in the hood have a mucher better 'starting position' than these guys, yet I work with alot more engineers from poorer countries than I do with people who grew up poor in America. That says alot about American entitlement mentality.
Banned
So no we all do not have the same opportunities. Thanks for clearing that up.And yes, I know rich kids get it easier.
So you really didn't have it bad at all then. Thanks again for clearing that up. So what then makes you think you know about living and going to school in a ghetto and trying to succeed against THOSE odds, especially in a country that is against you because of the color of your skin. And don't even try to say racism is dead...Though I was bussed into Junior High, my last two years of High School were at a school where my parents made under the median income of other parents. My parent scraped up money to get me a '73 Bug, while other kids were driving brand new IROCs, Saleen Mustings, stepside pick-ups, and some drove fully restored classic cars. It didn't make me bitter, it didn't make me despise rich people. It didn't make me a socialist. It made me tell myself I would bust my butt to be able to buy those things FOR MYSELF. That's why I say we all have the same opportunities. My father only wanted me and my brother to have more than he did, it's part of the American dream. And he did. I have some nice toys at my age my father couldn't affod to buy when he was my age. So when I see myslef achieve more than my parents, I know others can even if they start out 'behind' me.
See thats the catch isn't it. Enough intelligence...How do you expect a kid to succeed when the failing schools are putting out graduates years behind the necessary academic levels to actually succeed in higher education?There really is no excuse for a kid who is able-bodied, and with enough intelligence to graduate HS (which isn't alot btw) to fail in this country.
Banned
Your reading comprehension and logic are flawed. We all have the same opportunities. For example, anyone born in the US has the opportunity to become President of the United States, or a Senator, or a policeman, or a professor, etc. No laws bar this. But you appaerntly can't fathom that even though we all have the same opportunites, I admit some will have to work harder for it.
The opportunity is the same. Period. Get it now?
Banned
I didn't say they didn't matter. I said parental participation was the PRIMARY reason, not the ONLY reason.
True. But the laws were not even written forcing them to go in the first place. That's hypocracy. And for someone who is whining about fairness, I'm surprised you don't agree with me here. Those making the laws saw to it their kids weren't affected by the very policies they said were good policies for others.
FYI, once again it's the liberals bringing race into it.
But it appears you don't understand how the program works. It's not the top 10% out of the State. It's the top 10% from each individual school. So any school that has a huge proportion of minorities will have alot of minorities in it's Top 10%. Get it now?
Yes we do. And unless you can show me, for example, laws barring kids from the inner city from being professors, or laws prventing children of poor parents from becoming CEOs, etc, etc, you're assertion on this is dead wrong.
You're hung up on this. Look, we all have the same opportunity, like it or not.
Here is an example. Say you have two teams getting ready to play a basketball game, and I'm on one of the teams. Now I'm 5 ft 7, and lets say every other player in the game is over 6 ft tall. I have the same opportunity to be the leading scorer in that game as any other player. Now I may be at a disadvantage, but I still have the opportunity. Get it?
Well first off they have a teacher problem because many teachers refuse to teach there. I'd be hesitant to teach at a school where the first thing I saw when I walked in was a metal detector.
And I don't have a narrow view, I have a realistic view. We all have the sam opportunities, anyone who can;t see that is the one with a narrow view. Not me.
As to experience clawing your way up, I've been at or near the bottom in something and did quite well. I sarted MMA/BJJ at 31, I had smoked cigarettes for over 10 years prior to that, and I only weighed about 135 pounds. The average age there was at least 5 years younger than me, and the day I started I was the least experienced there. I busted my butt rolling/sparring with guys over 10 years younger than me at times, with guys 70+ pounds more than me, and with guys with years more experience than me. I didn't quit. I didn't say it was unfair I had many disadvantages. I busted my butt. And you know what? I got respect. When a professional fighter in his early 20s is sparring with 'the old, white guy' (yes, I was called that), and I wouldn't quit, I EARNED theri respect. They didn't look down on me for being older, they didn't look down on me for being one of the smaller guys there, they helped me get better, and they congratulated me when I earned my blue belt, they congratulated me when I won a tournament (where I entered the adult division because it was a bigger challenge, not the senior division). Hard work pays off, and it also makes the guy who did the hard work proud of himself. And again, it earns that guy respect from others who know he worked hard for it.
Banned
Once again you are wrong, at least in Texas. We have a standardized test (I can't remember it's name, its been a long time), the ALL seniors must pass to graduate even though those kids passed the required classes. So the schools have to teach kids at least up to that level or none of their kids would be passing the test. And we also have laws forcing schools who do not meet academic requirements to be closed. We actually have one here, Johnston High. It's well overdue to be closed, but every year it invariably comes up it's failed yet again, the parents actually protest to keep it open!!!
And in the other parts of your previous posts, you keep bringing up racism. You really have a jaded view, you apparently think most people are racists (a common trait among radical leftists btw). Let me ask you this, do you think Reggie White was a racist? I'm curious on this one.
Posting Permissions
