any good wing tsun/ wing chun school in london

[Hardwork108]

I think he means if you spar in the first weeks etc. You should be sparing once you can actually do some of the moves. Sparing straight away just ingrains bad habits that take heaps to get out. Get the moves then spar with it.

That is exactly what I mean and thanks Bennyvt.

ok i understand. well i will go and visit some of these schools and see it for my self then make a decision.

Because of the "unusualness" of many kung fu methodologies, it is best to first learn things like posture, stance and have some comprehension of their relationship with each other before you go onto sparring.

Also, don't worry about your age. I started my Wing Chun training in my late 30s. The Mainland Chinese WC's training was hard and ardeous, with a lot of stance work, including wider and deeper Shaolin ones, as well as Iron Palm and Iron body, leg work (there are a lot more kicks in Wing Chun then many believe) etc. However, no worries.

If you want it, then it is only a question of mind over matter. Of course, I doubt that many Hong Kong varients will practice deep stances, but I was trying to illustrate my point.

It is also worth mentioning that if you train regularly with a genuine sifu (which unfortunately are in the very, very small minority of kung fu instructors today), you should be able to take care of yourself within three years, using actual kung fu techniques instead of glorified kickboxing ones, which is sadly the case for the majority of practioners who claim "kung fu" knowledge.

That is the real "nonsense" regarding the current Traditional Chinese Martial Arts situation.

[edreel200]

Because of the "unusualness" of many kung fu methodologies, it is best to first learn things like posture, stance and have some comprehension of their relationship with each other before you go onto sparring.

Also, don't worry about your age. I started my Wing Chun training in my late 30s. The Mainland Chinese WC's training was hard and ardeous, with a lot of stance work, including wider and deeper Shaolin ones, as well as Iron Palm and Iron body, leg work (there are a lot more kicks in Wing Chun then many believe) etc. However, no worries.

If you want it, then it is only a question of mind over matter. Of course, I doubt that many Hong Kong varients will practice deep stances, but I was trying to illustrate my point.

It is also worth mentioning that if you train regularly with a genuine sifu (which unfortunately are in the very, very small minority of kung fu instructors today), you should be able to take care of yourself within three years, using actual kung fu techniques instead of glorified kickboxing ones, which is sadly the case for the majority of practioners who claim "kung fu" knowledge.

That is the real "nonsense" regarding the current Traditional Chinese Martial Arts situation. [/QUOTE]

you have made my day with your wise and encouraging words, and i am gaining some fundamental knowledge that hopefuly will set me on the right track.
all i need now is find some good sifu and start the hard work.

another question i was willing to ask which is slightly off topic, why is there a lot of people on the net bashing wc and saying its not street efective, like mma and straight punches are not powerfull and what not?


thanks for all your help

[edreel200]

Where abouts in SE London are you?

My instructor teaches in Lewisham/Catford, just behind the Mosque.

well i live in catford i heard about michael louison which is down the road from me.

what do u think about him?

[Hardwork108]

you have made my day with your wise and encouraging words, and i am gaining some fundamental knowledge that hopefuly will set me on the right track.
all i need now is find some good sifu and start the hard work.

Thank you for your kind words.

another question i was willing to ask which is slightly off topic, why is there a lot of people on the net bashing wc and saying its not street efective, like mma and straight punches are not powerfull and what not?

That phenomenon is connected exactly to what I was saying in my last post. The majority of people who have been exposed to Wing Chun, have done so as regards the watered down/fused/made up/standardized/commercial variety.

As a result many of them have gone on to find more fighting and self defense relevance in MMA, kickboxing and so on. These systems are less profound, but more time efficient in giving one fighting abilities in the short term, than Wing Chun and most other kung fu styles.

Eventually this type of martial "evolution" results in these cross training or ex-"Wing Chun" practioners turning around and badmouthing an art that they themselves have never really studied.

Then there is the trickle down effect of others who have never even tried to practiced Wing Chun or Kung fu in general, jumping on the bandwagon of bad mouthing this style. They probably think that if "Wing Chun" practitioners are criticizing this art, then what they say must be true. LOL

It is a sad phenomenon, but this same situation holds true with other kung fu styles as well.

So again, I would avoid schools that spar from early on. Also, be vary of "sifus" who use the hard sell approach, which may include telling you about their school's sports competition medals. Be patient and have a look at quite a few schools.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

[edreel200]

Thank you for your kind words.



That phenomenon is connected exactly to what I was saying in my last post. The majority of people who have been exposed to Wing Chun, have done so as regards the watered down/fused/made up/standardized/commercial variety.

As a result many of them have gone on to find more fighting and self defense relevance in MMA, kickboxing and so on. These systems are less profound, but more time efficient in giving one fighting abilities in the short term, than Wing Chun and most other kung fu styles.

Eventually this type of martial "evolution" results in these cross training or ex-"Wing Chun" practioners turning around and badmouthing an art that they themselves have never really studied.

Then there is the trickle down effect of others who have never even tried to practiced Wing Chun or Kung fu in general, jumping on the bandwagon of bad mouthing this style. They probably think that if "Wing Chun" practitioners are criticizing this art, then what they say must be true. LOL

It is a sad phenomenon, but this same situation holds true with other kung fu styles as well.

So again, I would avoid schools that spar from early on. Also, be vary of "sifus" who use the hard sell approach, which may include telling you about their school's sports competition medals. Be patient and have a look at quite a few schools.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

thanks man
well i am glad that i posed my questions here first before i make up my mind.

now i need to check out more sifus from the wong cheng long lineage so if anybody know any sifu in south east london please do let me know.

regards

[Vajramusti]

thanks man
well i am glad that i posed my questions here first before i make up my mind.

now i need to check out more sifus from the wong cheng long lineage so if anybody know any sifu in south east london please do let me know.

regards

--------------------------------------------------------

A lineage can help some- provided the sifu himself/ herself is good.

I have met Victor Kan and have rolled with him.

I have not met Michael Louison- but a mutual friend and student of his(Louison) gave me a video of him.

You cant' go wrong with either- pick one you think you can learn from for a while and feel comfortable with and with your decision.

joy chaudhuri

[LoneTiger108]

IMHO There a far more Sifus to look for in London than mentioned here, but I do agree with what most are saying. It does depend on what you want, and may also depend on how much you have to spend!!

This is a pretty good online guide
http://londonwingchun.com/

I also know the Lee Shing family have Sifu Greg Holloway in South London
http://www.wingchunlondon.co.uk/

Good luck on your journey.

[LSWCTN1]

well i live in catford i heard about michael louison which is down the road from me.

what do u think about him?

look no further!

[LoneTiger108]

A neat clip here of Sifu Louison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm1EDpHRaC0

His site
http://www.wingchunart.co.uk/

Personally, I don't like that approach to training but his students look sound and that's what matters IMHO

[LSWCTN1]

A neat clip here of Sifu Louison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm1EDpHRaC0

His site
http://www.wingchunart.co.uk/

Personally, I don't like that approach to training but his students look sound and that's what matters IMHO

cant see the clip - im at work - but Im not really so sure how you dont like the approach? When i cross train with my Lee Shing instructors (who have both been training since 1971 ish) it marries in very nicely.

Joe Lee also told me I was in great hands

[LoneTiger108]

cant see the clip - im at work - but Im not really so sure how you dont like the approach? When i cross train with my Lee Shing instructors (who have both been training since 1971 ish) it marries in very nicely.

I liked the clip, but I was talking more about his site and promotions. I have a 'twitch' that occurs whenever I see religion linked with Martial Arts! Nothing personal, but I just don't like that type of approach to promotions that's all.

Joe Lee also told me I was in great hands

And you trained with Uncle Joe Lee for how long?

I'm having trouble remembering who you trained with in Lee Shing family. Wasn't it your father? Under Joseph Cheng? Or was that someone else? (sorry!)

[couch]

well i live in catford i heard about michael louison which is down the road from me.

what do u think about him?

I've never spoke with him, but have with his students. Based on my dialogue with them, I'd definitely check him out. They seem very polite and this would usually be an indication that the instructor isn't an an arrogant pr!ck.

Good luck on your search. Asking a forum honestly won't do you the justice of checking everyone out as you go. We're all brainwashed to a certain degree...

CTK

[couch]

I liked the clip, but I was talking more about his site and promotions. I have a 'twitch' that occurs whenever I see religion linked with Martial Arts! Nothing personal, but I just don't like that type of approach to promotions that's all.

On second thought, it IS personal for you. That's why you don't like it.

I have a twitch with anything 'traditional/classical.' And that's very personal. Being open about religion, however, is easier for me.

[ShortBridge]

Thank you for your kind words.



That phenomenon is connected exactly to what I was saying in my last post. The majority of people who have been exposed to Wing Chun, have done so as regards the watered down/fused/made up/standardized/commercial variety.

As a result many of them have gone on to find more fighting and self defense relevance in MMA, kickboxing and so on. These systems are less profound, but more time efficient in giving one fighting abilities in the short term, than Wing Chun and most other kung fu styles.

Eventually this type of martial "evolution" results in these cross training or ex-"Wing Chun" practioners turning around and badmouthing an art that they themselves have never really studied.

Then there is the trickle down effect of others who have never even tried to practiced Wing Chun or Kung fu in general, jumping on the bandwagon of bad mouthing this style. They probably think that if "Wing Chun" practitioners are criticizing this art, then what they say must be true. LOL

It is a sad phenomenon, but this same situation holds true with other kung fu styles as well.

...

Not to sidetrack this thread, but I think this is dead-on and I don't see it expressed so clearly and practically very often.

I'll add that while other kung fu (and for that matter, I imagine Japanese and Korean) styles experience this same thing, Wing Chun seems to get the worst of it. I suspect that can be attributed to 2 major things, both of which relate back to Bruce Lee.

1) He made Wing Chun a thing that was marketable world wide on a large scale, so it spread fast and furious and quality and experience with it varies wildly from one corner to the next.

2) He also made popular in the west the concept of mixing or collecting techniques from multiple martial arts. So, a lot of people have dabbled in it enough to form some kind of opinion and the type of people to slag of traditional styles in favor of modern styles, likely had some exposure to someone saying they knew something about it at some point.

I remember a JKD guy showing me my first wing chun back in the early 90s. "And this is bong sao". It made no sense to me (or I suspect him). When I felt my first wing chun from a good player who trained in a little warehouse space in Miami with no sign, I was shocked at how effective and brutal I perceived it to be.

And for me, the rest was history.

[edreel200]

I've never spoke with him, but have with his students. Based on my dialogue with them, I'd definitely check him out. They seem very polite and this would usually be an indication that the instructor isn't an an arrogant pr!ck.

Good luck on your search. Asking a forum honestly won't do you the justice of checking everyone out as you go. We're all brainwashed to a certain degree...

CTK

thanks man

i understand what you mean, but it would not hurt to gain some insight on the art and the way people teach it.
i have met michael louison and he seems very humble and knows his stuff, and his prices are quite reasonable.

so i am gona have a look at few more schools then make up my mind.

thanks to everyone that helped me on this thread.

regards