The risk of the TCMA hammer fist

[bawang]

hammerfist is good when someone turtles up or he gets knocked out already. most hammerfist in longfist is those 2 apps
also good for wrestling clinch

use common sense

[goju]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfLlGHV1dG4

this hammer fist worked pretty well

[YouKnowWho]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfLlGHV1dG4

this hammer fist worked pretty well

That look like a back fist (circle in front of your body) to me. To me the definition of a hammer fist is you swing your arm behind your body, over your head, and then drop straight down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfc-lv-GMvM

[SPJ]

za fist can also be done with mid or small circle.

but you are right, it is usually done with a big swing around the shoulder joint.

in pi gua, da pi da gua

your pi with open palm or pinkie side can be changed to closed fist to hammer

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[YouKnowWho]

I'll consider the 3rd drill (4 strikes combo) is more like hammer fist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hI6OJpVzi8

[YouKnowWho]

Not if the hammerer sinks in with the elbow, or if it is done with high power, or isolates his elbow... At combat speed the switch your suggesting is indeed possible but much easier said than done......every move is counterable....thats the art.

It may be easier than you think. I had developed this move by accident. Long time ago someone used a hard block (similiar to hammer fist on the arm) on my punch, I borrowed his force and changed my punch into a hook punch and knocked him down. After that I loved to borrow my opponent's force to get my "initial acceslation" for my favor hook punch. My opponent's hammer fist not only give me the "initial acceslation" that I need for my hook punch, his hammer fist also exposes his head for me. This is the "risk" that I'm talking about for the hammer fist.

[SPJ]

I'll consider the 3rd drill (4 strikes combo) is more like hammer fist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hI6OJpVzi8

in long fist, you may use the wheel of the fist or quan lun 拳 轮 to hammer

in tong bei, we use the kunckles or quan bei 拳 背 to hit.

so the first one is flat surface or meaty part of the fist

the last one is pointed surface or bony part of the fist

in tong bei. we also protrude the middle finger's 2nd knuckle to strike or za.

[David Jamieson]

It's (the hammerfist) unorthodox and therein lies it's virtually only advantage over any other strike.

If you pick 6 attacks and 6 defenses that you know you can successfully use over and over again with good chances all the time, then that should be your personal catalog of material to use in unarmed conflict.

It is good to know more though, because not everyone favours the same 12 things.

Still we learn many things and after a long time it gets whittled down to what we succeed most with. But constant revisitation may reval new successes as well.

Using a knife will always give you a higher advantage over an unarmed combatant when in a conflict.

[Frost]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY1Hi...eature=related

At 1.38, when you use right "hammer fist" on your opponent's left arm, your opponent can borrow your force and sping his left arm into a hook punch at your head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOD_MuvzcwY&NR=1

IMO, this will never work in combat speed. The reason is the hammer fist has to travel much longer path than a jab. If your hammer fist can hit on your opponent's arm when he applies a straight punch, you must be much faster than him. If you are much faster than your opponent then anything will work.

There is a good reason that "hammer fist" is not commonly used in the western boxing. It's just too slow to be combat realistic. What's your opinion on the "hammer fist"?

or they can just hit you with a right cross, why these types of demos are show with both hands down is beyond me, even if you do have the timing and speed to hammer down on an incoming jab (which i highly doubt) no one will throw a jab in isolation they will follow it up with a right cross and in that video the cross would have put the guy down hard

As already pointed out hammer fists can be a good idea on the ground

[Northwind]

I, like Gene, love the hammer fist. However, its usefulness depends on scenario and how its done. Although it can be done like shown in those video clips, I don't like that at all and do not teach my students in BSL to do the big way back circle, but rather leading with the elbow. It's a great movement, but again you can't just use it anywhere nor anytime - that's where crossing hands comes in - being able to learn of times where certain things would be more appropriate.

[-N-]

It may be easier than you think. I had developed this move by accident. Long time ago someone used a hard block (similiar to hammer fist on the arm) on my punch, I borrowed his force and changed my punch into a hook punch and knocked him down.

i thought Larry, Curly, and Moe invented that in the 1930's.

[Taixuquan99]

I think the main issue I see with the usage is it requires you to deflect or block a strike on the opposite side of your body from the outside of that strike, to a degree. That's why the jab beats it.

Now, if it is a jab coming from your outside, all you have to do is raise your elbow and step in, it makes more sense in that context.

Or, as Bawang said, when they turtle up or after you roofie them.

[SPJ]

you may use several za from both of your hands in turn.

the first one will invite a defense

you then turn around your hand to grab

if no time, forget about grabbing the opponent's defending forearm

just deliver another za one after another

keep going

3 to 6 in a row

and keep going

till you land one.

since your fist coming out from behind your first/front hand

both of your hands stay in your centerline

you are covering your chest/abdomen all the time.

at least that is the theory and practice from tong bei.

your first za was hurried by the second

your second za was hurried by the third

sometimes they are called strung together cannons

lian zhu pao: linked pearl (pearl string) cannons.

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[TenTigers]

Hakka Kuen uses a similar technique to what Mr.C showed. We call it gao choy, and it is a short, dropping hammerfist that comes from your guard, down at a diagonal angle, (elbow drops first) combined with whole body weight dropping,deep penetration, and a quick snap-back to guard-short power. Hard to describe.
The strike is fast, and has great destructive force. The striking surface is the hammerfist, or forearm-which is like hitting with an axe handle.
Targets can be the side of head,jaw, neck, collarbone. Lung Ying guys like to hit the corner of the jaw by the ear to dislocate the jaw.
This can come off the cover from a hook.

[YouKnowWho]

Now, if it is a jab coming from your outside, all you have to do is raise your elbow and step in,

That's the "掛(Gua) - comb hair" principle. The best move against jab in TCMA, even MT guys use that a lot.

By the way, I have met a Taixuquan instructor in a Vancouver park.