Wing Chun System or Style?

[LoneTiger108]

The 'System' of Wing Chun is very specific. It has structure, literature (kuit) and a braod curriculum that gives an overview of the initial idea of Wing Chun Martial Art.

The 'Style' of Wing Chun is personal. It may have influences from other arts, your own life circumstance and may only cover a parts of the 'System' due to an individuals experience with one or many Wing Chun teachers.

So, what are your thoughts?

Personally, I have my own style of teaching but I do like to keep to the curriculums of the system I was taught.

[YouKnowWho]

Personally, I have my own style of teaching but I do like to keep to the curriculums of the system I was taught.

The day that you have passed your 60 years old birthday, the day that "style" and "system" will make no difference to you. It's you that's more important than your "system" or "style". You are the master. System or style are all your slaves.

[chusauli]

You do your own style (personal expression), you can have your own teaching methodology (way of teaching), you can have your own curriculum (order of teaching). But ultimately, it is a system (of tools) you learn to use.

[Dantien]

It is a number of concepts which are based around using body mechanics, physics, geometry and efficiency, which therefore makes it a system. But the system makes it a unique style, if that makes any sense.

[YouKnowWho]

Sometime we should not only consider what a system can give to you but what contributation that you can give back to your system. If you just pass down exactly what you have learned from your teacher to your students, you are just a good "copy machine", no more and no less.

[Phil Redmond]

I was taught that a "Pai" (style) as in Ying Jow Pai,Fu Jow Pai has fixed forms, techniques with no room for innovation of changes. A "Do" as in Jeet Kuen Do is more philosophical. A "Kuen" (fist) as in Wing Chun Kuen is more open to practical changes or innovations. The pole wasn't part of WCK but was added later.
I got this information from two well known Kung Fu Sifus. One of whom has passed on. Now just because I heard that doesn't make it correct. I'm just tossing in my '3' cents.

[Grumblegeezer]

My old Chinese sifu used to equate the term "style" with mannerisms, fashion, or other superficial manifestations of a fighting art. He felt that the term "system" implied an essential, functional integration of all the techniques, like parts of a well designed machine. Everything served an indispensible purpose, nothing should be there just for looks or flair. In that sense, the term "system" is an apt description of what we strive for in WC, although as humans, it is always in our nature to interject a bit of personal style. Differentiating betweeen the two is important if we want to keep our art as efficient and free of ornamentation as possible. When we pass the system on, we may wish to make "contributions" as YouKnowWho suggested, but in so doing, we need to be careful not to weaken the "system" by passing on elements of mere "style".

BTW, after lurking a long time, it's good to actually start posting on this forum!

[ShortBridge]

I was thinking about this recently in terms of accents. I've moved around a bit and people back home say that I lost my accent, but people elsewhere say that it's still there. I think in fact, I'm influenced by everywhere I've lived, just like my positions on issues is influenced by books I've read and experiences I've had.

But, I haven't become those things. I try to be very true to Wing Chun. For me that means looking back at how I think it might have been taught, being very faithful to the way I was taught and being comfortable making choices about what I think would help my own training and anyone who I'm working with. I want to be both traditional and relevant (which, I sort of believe was the tradition).

People who I've come up with and have the same teaching as me, we're the same, but we're not. No major differences in what we think the system is, but our hands feel different. Personally, I think that's okay. Good even.

Very interesting thread. I'm interested in everyone's responses.

[couch]

Wing Chun isn't a style to me. Perhaps a system. More like a systematic approach to getting the core ideas across.

If I wanted to teach someone what Wing Chun was about (theory, etc), I would create such drills that are contained in the system. I would create forms to showcase Wing Chun. That way, when it was passed down, the core ideas of the system would never be lost.

Problem would be...if people confused the system/shell for the real thing...but that's for another time, perhaps.

[YouKnowWho]

Will you call boxing or Judo a style or system? IMO, a style or system should contain kick, punch, lock, and throw. Today, the ground game should also be included as well.

Many years ago I was only interested in how to use my "head lock" in stand up game. Today, I have more interest in how to use my "head lock" in ground game. The reason is simple. 30 years ago I didn't have to deal with BJJ guys. But today I have to.

[anerlich]

Definitions are necessary.

From Dictionary.com (selected)

System: an ordered and comprehensive assemblage of facts, principles, doctrines, or the like in a particular field of knowledge or thought; any formulated, regular, or special method or plan of procedure

Style: a particular, distinctive, or characteristic mode of action or manner of acting; a particular, distinctive, or characteristic mode or form of construction or execution in any art or work

WC as a whole is much more system than style IMO. You could argue about whether the offerings of individual lineages are different systems or stylistic expressions of the same system.

Will you call boxing or Judo a style or system? IMO, a style or system should contain kick, punch, lock, and throw. Today, the ground game should also be included as well.

A "system of complete fighting" might want to include kicks, punches, locks and throws. Judo doesn't but is certainly a "system of grappling with the gi". It's highly debatable whether WC qualifies as a "system of complete fighting". Arguably no such thing currently exists and many guys train in multiple systems.

Will answering this question make you better at whatever your goals are with WC? Probably not, unless you want to become a dictionary pundit.

[LoneTiger108]

System: an ordered and comprehensive assemblage of facts, principles, doctrines, or the like in a particular field of knowledge or thought; any formulated, regular, or special method or plan of procedure

Style: a particular, distinctive, or characteristic mode of action or manner of acting; a particular, distinctive, or characteristic mode or form of construction or execution in any art or work.

Sums it up nicely, so thanks for posting.

[GlennR]

Id be voting it as a style.

But here's another question.... Sport or hobby?

GlennR

[LoneTiger108]

But here's another question.... Sport or hobby?

Personally I would answer neither!

Form me, Martial Art is a Way Of Life and Wing Chun should also be viewed as such.

[GlennR]

Personally I would answer neither!

Form me, Martial Art is a Way Of Life and Wing Chun should also be viewed as such.

Mmmmm, never quite yook to that idea..... but to each his own

Oh, and sport for me if i had to choose