Wing Chun System or Style?

[YouKnowWho]

Personally I would answer neither!

Form me, Martial Art is a Way Of Life and Wing Chun should also be viewed as such.

Agree with you on this. If you take Differential Equations, Modern Algebra, Category Theory, Nonparametric Statistics, Real Analysis, ... in college. Any particular class will be hardly to make you a "mathematician", but a combination of your 160 hours (120 hours undergraduate + 40 hours graduate school) total class credit plus your graduate school research will.

[GlennR]

Agree with you on this. If you take Differential Equations, Modern Algebra, Category Theory, Nonparametric Statistics, Real Analysis, ... in college. Any particular class will be hardly to make you a "mathematician", but a combination of your 160 hours (120 hours undergraduate + 40 hours graduate school) total class credit plus your graduate school research will.

Wow... i dont even understand that!

[backyard1]

I started studied wing chun as a teenager. Now Im in my late 30s and I dont actually get to see my teacher anymore - I bought a house in the country, too far to travel. For me though, I will always think of myself as a wc guy no matter what other sports I do (mountain bike riding being my thing now). I think its by throwing out wc techniques when Ive nothing better to do that keeps me switched on. Not to mention the way it changes even the simple act of walking. I cant imagine life without wc and I know that it will be with me until the day I die. I know that this is true of a lot of people, no matter what style you practice. I thin its about style

[LoneTiger108]

Thanks for all your opinions so far, but don't forget to vote!

At this stage we can see that most favour The System of Wing Chun over The Style.

Here's the definition of System supplied by anerlich:

"System: an ordered and comprehensive assemblage of facts, principles, doctrines, or the like in a particular field of knowledge or thought; any formulated, regular, or special method or plan of procedure"

So I ask you what do you feel is a good representation of the Wing Chun System?

[anerlich]

So I ask you what do you feel is a good representation of the Wing Chun System?

Iyiyi.

What I do, obviously.

I see this as another potential flamewar in the offing.

[Vajramusti]

Iyiyi.

What I do, obviously.

I see this as another potential flamewar in the offing.

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agree!! With a different "I".


Let's not argue on this one.


joy chaudhuri

[LoneTiger108]

Iyiyi.

What I do, obviously.

I see this as another potential flamewar in the offing.

Now now! I can't see why you would think that?

But please, explain further how what you do can be viewed as the Wing Chun System?

[Vajramusti]

Now now! I can't see why you would think that?

But please, explain further how what you do can be viewed as the Wing Chun System?

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Not me.No thank you.Sounds like the making of a long zig zagging thread- traveling over a long waterfront longer than the Somali coast with pirates darting in and out.

joy chaudhuri

[LoneTiger108]

Not me.No thank you.Sounds like the making of a long zig zagging thread- traveling over a long waterfront longer than the Somali coast with pirates darting in and out.

Wow Joy! I thought the answer to that question was quite simple and many have already posted their opinions here. Why don't you?

Style or System? Why?

All in good spirit too, from myself anyhow...

[Vajramusti]

Wow Joy! I thought the answer to that question was quite simple and many have already posted their opinions here. Why don't you?

Style or System? Why?

All in good spirit too, from myself anyhow...

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You have two somewhat different questions-related but different. #1 is temptingly simple.
#2 would require a longer answer- if it's a serious question

1.Style or system




2.But please, explain further how what you do can be viewed as the Wing Chun System?

The strings running through concepts gives wing chun characteristics of a system. But wing chun is also an art- so competent wing chun people will have their own heightened awareness and approach.

joy chaudhuri

[LoneTiger108]

The strings running through concepts gives wing chun characteristics of a system. But wing chun is also an art- so competent wing chun people will have their own heightened awareness and approach.

I totally agree Joy, but would add here that when the competent individual starts to express things he/she has 'found' themselves or not been directly taught, then this is the birth of personal Style imho.

The System is fixed and this should be common to all of us. These days this 'System' has become a collection of terms, form images and sansau techniques. That imho is NOT the System I refer to. Unfortunately what I have seen and read here, along with what is generally taught around the World, is more personal style and interpretation than system. The system is somewhat missing imho due to far too much self exploration/indulgence within our Art, even by the founding Sifus of our time which includes anyone who learnt from Ip Man! And even Ip Man himself!

What interests me most is the System itself and I'm looking for people who have it (or claim to have it) so I can compare what I have experienced. The System is not what Ip Man taught publically in Hong Kong from my research.

Okay. Must stop now coz I will confuse myself

[LoneTiger108]

Thanks for everyones input and votes! Time to draw this poll to a close...

... but before we do, I have explained what I have experienced and why I feel that the system is what it is, but what about you??

What is 'your' idea of the Wing Chun System?

[kung fu fighter]

wing chun is a system of training methods to enhanced a fighter's natural attributes, instincts, and efficient bio-mechanics, but can only be preserved passed down and through a style.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Wing Chun is a fighting system that will not tolerate alteration and still remain Wing Chun. The way this simple and basic system is practiced individually will represent an individual style. We stylize our own Wing Chun, which is our choice of fighting system.
The only style of the Wing Chun system that I recognize is the Lee Chiang Hung Fa style. It preceeds Ip Man and others that are common today. I say this simply because I have not studied any other style of Wing Chun. In fact, I was not really aware of the many different lineages out there until just a few years ago.

[Grumblegeezer]

The System is fixed and this should be common to all of us....

What interests me most is the System itself and I'm looking for people who have it (or claim to have it) so I can compare what I have experienced.

Wing Chun is a fighting system that will not tolerate alteration and still remain Wing Chun.

Both of the quotes above seem to display a certain rigidity of outlook that I find misguided. Do you really think that there is "one true system" out there, perhaps an "original" or "authentic" version that has been diluted and distorted over the generations? That is the kind of dogmatic thinking often associated with religious cults. It's natural to try to seek the most efficient system possible, but to believe that there can only be one, true way, unchanging and eternal? Well, that sounds far fetched to me.

I already weighed in on the original question about "style" vs. "system". I firmly believe that WC is essentially a system. Each technique or movement should be part of an integrated "clockwork" that functions as efficiently as a well oiled machine. To use the automobile as an analogy, some cars are obviously very functional and efficiently designed to do a specific job. That job may be to be a work vehicle, a racing sports car, a family transporting mini-van, or whatever. Regardless, to the degree which all the parts of each particular auto are designed to work together to achieve maximum efficiency in executing the car's designated function is what I'm understanding as the essence of what we mean by "system". "Style" to me implies "adornment", that is to say things like the pin-striping and hood ornament on an otherwise efficient and practical automobile. But any way you look at it, systems are not fixed. And there is no "perfect system" such as a "perpetual motion machine". And, systems evolve and change over time as do the functions they serve.

I guess what I'm getting at is that we probably agree that certain things can't be grafted onto WC without destroying it's systemic integrity. For example, a friend of mine from an MMA/boxing background tried to convince me that WC would be a better "style" if we just adopted a boxer's guard, forward crouch and lifted our shoulders to protect against punches, like he did. He didn't understand that our posture, structure and techniques are part of an integrated whole. You can't just tack on some boxing moves and expect positive results any more than you can casually swap engine parts from two radically different makes of car and get them to run. But, on the other hand, you can see one root branch of WC gradually give rise to distinctly different sub-branches which each have their own systemic integrity. This is not unlike what happens in biology or engineering as one source or "parent" eventually gives rise to diverse forms... each of which may serve it's own distinct function with greater efficiency than the parent form. Each is a "system", but now a different system from it's ancestors or cousins.