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Thread: bruce lee gung fu forms

  1. #31
    thank you very much TopCrusader about this informations
    do you have other informations about bruce lee and gung fu?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwert2020 View Post
    thank you very much TopCrusader about this informations
    do you have other informations about bruce lee and gung fu?
    Qwert, I personally study Jun Fan Gung Fu / Jeet Kune Do, so I like to study the foundations of Lee's art and martial knowledge. Shiu Hon Sang is one of the key people in his life in my opinion. The others are Yip Man, William Cheung, Wong Shun Leung, his father Lee Hoi Chuen, among others.

    I know you have done much work in researching Lee's background as well. The arts that seemed to have the most effect on him at an early age were: Wing Chun, Tai Chi, the Mantis arts (North, South, Seven Star), and Choy Lay Fut. There are others of course.
    If you look at Lee's personal gung fu "scrapbook" found in the back of Tao of Gung Fu book, you can see some of his sources. Pages on Northern Mantis, Eagle, Crane, and others all show the arts he was interested in. One of them, as you know, has pictures of Shiu Hon Sang demonstrating techniques. I have tried to find out what source (book, magazine) that came from, but with no success.
    Good Luck

  3. #33

    Bruce Lee ' s kung fu forms

    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Lum Fighter View Post
    I believe this to be slightly inaccurate. Shui Hon Sang was an older classmate of Grandmaster Ma Gim Fung. The whole reason Bruce went to Shui was because he was impressed with Wong Jack Man's abilities after his match with him in 1964 and he wanted to learn some of Wong's style (Bak Siu Lum and Bak Siu Lum Lo Han). Of course, this was the match that caused him to renounce Wing Chun which, despite what many would have you believe, indicates that Bruce didn't win that fight. After this match and before he began work on The Green Hornet, Bruce went back to Hong Kong a couple of times in 1965. At some point he wrote Wong Jack Man's teacher, Ma Gim Fung, and requested lessons. Ma was an especially gifted master and had taught Wong Sifu his BSL Lo Han that had been passed down from Ku Yu Cheung. Ma turned him away, but Bruce managed to convince Shui Hon Sang to teach him. Shui was an older classmate of Ma's and during Bruce's time in Hong Kong in 1965 Shui taught him Gung Li Chuan and Jie Chuan.
    Hello , so Sil Lum Fighter are you saying that Bruce lost the fight against Wong Jack Man ? And the people who write stories like bruce lee alot so they disillusion people to make them think that bruce won the fight over wong jack man , and instead the truth was that bruce lost the fight against wong jack man ?

    Because , I know that bruce had training in bak sil lum , but he eventually went into his own way of martial arts , so that ' s why he created Jeet Kune Do . Because if bruce got training in bak sil lum because he taught this bak sil lum was great , then why did he study and experiment with techniques of different martial arts for , if he taught that bak sil lum was the best ? And he lost against wong jack man .

    And while experimenting with techniques from different martial arts systems and styles , he absorb the techniques that was useful to him and rejected what useless to him and kept the techniques which was his own . And it lead into his own way of martial arts which is jeet kune do .

    And sil lum fighter that movie the true legends of bruce lee the one produced by
    shannon lee , does this movie reflect into what your topic posts was talking about ? Well , bruce lee was ' nt that great as a martial artist , well people still worship him as the greatest martial artist that ever lived . And people still want to learn his art .

    Because I read sources that is opposite of what your topic post writes , so
    that ' s why , I have all this questions about bruce lee in my head ? And , if Bruce
    lost the fight with wong jack man , then why is still bruce still famous . And why is some of bruce ' s students still teaching his art ? Usually if a well known martial artist had lost a fight against another well known martial artist , people would go and learn from the winner .


    Take Care ,
    Lance

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by lance View Post

    Because I read sources that is opposite of what your topic post writes , so
    that ' s why , I have all this questions about bruce lee in my head ? And , if Bruce
    lost the fight with wong jack man , then why is still bruce still famous . And why is some of bruce ' s students still teaching his art ? Usually if a well known martial artist had lost a fight against another well known martial artist , people would go and learn from the winner .


    Take Care ,
    Lance
    Bruce Lee is most famous for being an actor, not a martial artist. He didn't become famous because he won fights, he became famous for pretending to beat people up on the Green Hornet. While I'm a Bruce Lee fan, I'm not prone to believing that just because he continues to be one of the best known martial artists, that he must, as a result, have been one of the best.

    Winning a lot of pretend fights in Enter the Dragon doesn't make someone a great fighter. While I respect him as a dedicated martial artist, fame isn't even a good indicator of fighting skill. And if Hollywood (or the Hong Kong equivalent) is marketing someone as being a great fighter, they aren't going to put forward losses as a marketing strategy.
    Sith Legal Kung Fu is unstoppable.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlawyer View Post
    Bruce Lee is most famous for being an actor, not a martial artist. He didn't become famous because he won fights, he became famous for pretending to beat people up on the Green Hornet. While I'm a Bruce Lee fan, I'm not prone to believing that just because he continues to be one of the best known martial artists, that he must, as a result, have been one of the best.

    Winning a lot of pretend fights in Enter the Dragon doesn't make someone a great fighter. While I respect him as a dedicated martial artist, fame isn't even a good indicator of fighting skill. And if Hollywood (or the Hong Kong equivalent) is marketing someone as being a great fighter, they aren't going to put forward losses as a marketing strategy.
    QFT.

    There are a staggering amount of people who project all sorts of nonsense onto this long dead man. I believe this is because of the cause celebrity and how for some reason, a great deal of humans seem to think that following someone else around will rub off on them somehow.

    Of course, that's not true. Humans are funny that way. Really quite lazy on so many levels. Very few people who actually are willing to do the work and when there are one or two who do it well, the horde of lazy folk start celebrating them.

    ..and so we spin around, together, trippin on the ball.

    C'est la vie.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  6. #36
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    To Darthlawyer (I like the name!)
    I agree with you that BL is most famous for being an actor. However, what got people to notice him that eventually landed him the Green Hornet role? He obviously had some exceptional attributes to get himself noticed over many other martial artists of the day. Also, I think it speaks for itself the many seasoned martial artists from 1958-1970 who dropped whatever art they were practicing to learn from BL. Early guys like Jesse Glover, Ed Hart, Taky Kimura, Skip Ellsworth, Inosanto, and others all saw something in him that made him stand out. Like Darthlawyer and Jamieson have mentioned, Bruce Lee (while some would disagree), was not a all-out street fighter/thug. Im not sure why some people think that is a bad thing that he was not out killing people.

    I hope I dont sound like I am defending BL, but I would like to put it into perspective. Let us not delve into revisionist history that there was nothing special about the man. Take away his screen time and it is still obvious the man had something to offer. Talk to any of his students or non-students like Ed Parker, Gene LeBell, Jhoon Rhee, etc and they will all speak highly of him.

    And about Jamieson's comment.....wasnt that the whole point of JKD was to follow your own ambitions and not somebody else? Wasnt that the reason Lee closed his schools is because people were mistaken Bruce Lee's way for "THE way"? I agree, some people do learn or follow Lee because they are attracted to the status and level he achieved. But compare that to many other martial arts. How many learn Brazilian Jujitsu because of the level of success the Gracie family achieved? Or how many people learn Hung Gar kung fu because it was popularized by Wong Fei Hung, etc? It is not much different.

    I hope this makes the slightest bit of sense.

  7. #37
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    Yes.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  8. #38

    Bruce Lee Kung Fu forms

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCrusader View Post
    To Darthlawyer (I like the name!)
    I agree with you that BL is most famous for being an actor. However, what got people to notice him that eventually landed him the Green Hornet role? He obviously had some exceptional attributes to get himself noticed over many other martial artists of the day. Also, I think it speaks for itself the many seasoned martial artists from 1958-1970 who dropped whatever art they were practicing to learn from BL. Early guys like Jesse Glover, Ed Hart, Taky Kimura, Skip Ellsworth, Inosanto, and others all saw something in him that made him stand out. Like Darthlawyer and Jamieson have mentioned, Bruce Lee (while some would disagree), was not a all-out street fighter/thug. Im not sure why some people think that is a bad thing that he was not out killing people.

    I hope I dont sound like I am defending BL, but I would like to put it into perspective. Let us not delve into revisionist history that there was nothing special about the man. Take away his screen time and it is still obvious the man had something to offer. Talk to any of his students or non-students like Ed Parker, Gene LeBell, Jhoon Rhee, etc and they will all speak highly of him.

    And about Jamieson's comment.....wasnt that the whole point of JKD was to follow your own ambitions and not somebody else? Wasnt that the reason Lee closed his schools is because people were mistaken Bruce Lee's way for "THE way"? I agree, some people do learn or follow Lee because they are attracted to the status and level he achieved. But compare that to many other martial arts. How many learn Brazilian Jujitsu because of the level of success the Gracie family achieved? Or how many people learn Hung Gar kung fu because it was popularized by Wong Fei Hung, etc? It is not much different.

    I hope this makes the slightest bit of sense.
    Hello Top Crusader , I agree with you too about what you said about BL in your
    quote reply to Darthlawyer . which is true .


    Lance

  9. #39
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    Just to be clear, I love Bruce Lee. He helped make CMA recognizable in the US. I'm just cautious of hero worship. I'm sure he was a great fighter. I'm sure his kung fu was better than mine currently is.

    However, I imagine what got him noticed was that he was photogenic and passable as a kung fu artist. If he had a lazy eye and bad acne, we would never have heard of him.
    Sith Legal Kung Fu is unstoppable.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlawyer View Post
    . If he had a lazy eye and bad acne, we would never have heard of him.
    nah- that guy from the Venom Gang is sorta cross-eyed, and Jet Lei has that thing on his nose.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  11. #41
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    I have been and remain critical of the hero worship surrounding BL. Was he the greatest fighter that ever lived? Of course not. The greatest MAist? Nope. Have 'facts' been skewed in his favor by certain person(s) who have something to gain by Bl's legend? Most probably. But as has already been mentioned, he obviously had SOMEthing. He clearly was not your run-of-the-mill MA person.

    As for his movie success, don't forget that he came from a movie background. He was a child star in HK long before Green Hornet, though it was GH that made him popular. He had a highly charismatic personality, above-average intelligence, and natural athletic talents. He may not have been a fighter, but I have no illusions that what he accomplished in his life was easy to achieve, because it wasn't. Otherwise anybody could have equaled it. Countless numbers have tried and failed. Esp. back when he did it; a Chinese actor becoming an iconic draw not only overseas but in the West as well? Unthinkable at the time. The fact that he's still popular and being talked about 38 years later says a lot.

  12. #42
    bruce lee was an interesting guy but as an actor he sucked... real bad acting... and he certainly was no hero, or one of the greatest martial artists ever...


    that being said, i like the movies, theyre cheesy and cliche but i love em anyways... maybe thats why i liked em so much...

    anyways, i think its misguided and down right unhealthy to worship this guy as anything more than what he was... a martial arts movie phenom even tho he never really fought anybody and was an okay martial artist... but most of that was conditioning, not some amazing natural talent... you see it all the time in sports...

  13. #43

    Bruce Lee gung fu forms

    Quote Originally Posted by TopCrusader View Post
    Actually, to me that looks like the "Gop Shu" (trapping forearms) hand motion found in Southern Mantis
    Hello TopCrusader ,

    By looking at your thread it seems like bruce lee studied alot kung fu systems which were different from eachother . Like Wing Chun , Choy Li Fut ,
    little bit of hung gar , eagle claw , praying mantis , Hsing I , bagua .

    In his early years he did practice the forms to this systems , but as times went on
    he disregarded forms , and instead went on to practice mainly the applications to these systems .
    The reasons why bruce lee was against forms was because people would ' nt know what they were for . Because in the chinese martial arts world , you have the forms for traditional purposes and the applications which are the techniques you really going use against the attacker should the situation arises .

    There was a documentry film on youtube which talks about wing chun and JKD Guru Inosanto was telling the story about why bruce lee was against forms , while Chris Kent and Jeff Imada was demo using JKD techniques . Thr documentry talks about kung fu the hard way . They were showing Lee ' s concepts of JKD .
    Altough JKD is a formless art , it useses tecniques from different arts in general .
    The concepts as you already know were absorb what is useful abd reject what is useless and to keep what works for you .
    Guru Inosanto once promise bruce that while he was still living , Dan would ' nt commercialize JKD , but he ' ll only teach the concepts of JKD , that is how it became JKD concepts . The meaning behind JKD varies , there different ways of describing JKD .

    Lance

  14. #44
    ive never heard anyone call him guru inosanto...

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by lance View Post
    Hello TopCrusader ,

    By looking at your thread it seems like bruce lee studied alot kung fu systems which were different from eachother . Like Wing Chun , Choy Li Fut ,
    little bit of hung gar , eagle claw , praying mantis , Hsing I , bagua .

    In his early years he did practice the forms to this systems , but as times went on
    he disregarded forms , and instead went on to practice mainly the applications to these systems .
    The reasons why bruce lee was against forms was because people would ' nt know what they were for . Because in the chinese martial arts world , you have the forms for traditional purposes and the applications which are the techniques you really going use against the attacker should the situation arises .

    There was a documentry film on youtube which talks about wing chun and JKD Guru Inosanto was telling the story about why bruce lee was against forms , while Chris Kent and Jeff Imada was demo using JKD techniques . Thr documentry talks about kung fu the hard way . They were showing Lee ' s concepts of JKD .
    Altough JKD is a formless art , it useses tecniques from different arts in general .
    The concepts as you already know were absorb what is useful abd reject what is useless and to keep what works for you .
    Guru Inosanto once promise bruce that while he was still living , Dan would ' nt commercialize JKD , but he ' ll only teach the concepts of JKD , that is how it became JKD concepts . The meaning behind JKD varies , there different ways of describing JKD .

    Lance
    Good information Lance, thankyou. Actually, in my limited research I found little info suggesting BL learned Bagua or Hsing-I except through books. Have you heard otherwise?

    And yes, as Syn7 pointed out, its usually spelled Guro.

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