Yet another Muslim terrorist murders Americans

[sanjuro_ronin]

oh ok... so if a guy rapes and kills people, its cool, as long as he isnt doing it today???

and yes, i already said so, africa, lotsof christian based killings... google it, you will find a ton of links...

I can't recall the country in Africa but "christians" were going out and killing ****sexuals.
It was a fringe group, but still.

[Syn7]

I can't recall the country in Africa but "christians" were going out and killing ****sexuals.
It was a fringe group, but still.

and abortion doctors which of course, when using explosives, always runs the risk of hurting inoscents...

[Drake]

Now this is just my opinion, but I find it hard to believe anything that was physically written by a man is somehow divinely directed any more than I believe any other assertion made without anything to back it up.

We are constantly learning about the universe, and most religions have found themselves continually needing to alter their interpretations to fit the realities we are discovering.

"Oh, maybe passage X was about black holes, and it was just written in the context of the person's view of the world at the time!"

No... passage X really states that the magic monkey gave the prophet a magic banana. Nothing about black holes to be found there.

I just made that up... don't run with it. But, you know what I mean.

[BJJ-Blue]

oh ok... so if a guy rapes and kills people, its cool, as long as he isnt doing it today???

Do what?!?!

and yes, i already said so, africa, lotsof christian based killings... google it, you will find a ton of links...

We've been over this one before (I believe it was before you showed up though), and it was shown to be false. Post your links if you have any, but I've already searched before and came up empty.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It pains me to see this happening, especially when Christ was SO clear in his regard to those that are different then us and even those that are our enemies:
We are to love them and pray for them.
We are to take care of those that need taking care of.
We leave judgement to God since NO ONE is without sin.
Christ forgave those that crucified him and commanded as to love each other and our enemies.
It's not that hard, but this is the danger of when people allow others to interpret the "word of God" for them instead of learning it for themselves.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Now this is just my opinion, but I find it hard to believe anything that was physically written by a man is somehow divinely directed any more than I believe any other assertion made without anything to back it up.

The bible tells us to TEST all that we are told and it warns us that even the Word of God is not tamper proof.
Jeremiah warned and cursed the scribes for attributing false things that they wanted people to believe was the word of God.

We are constantly learning about the universe, and most religions have found themselves continually needing to alter their interpretations to fit the realities we are discovering.

Our understandging of God is based only in PART on the bible, God's wonderous work of the universe is another part of that.
It is right that our understanding of God evolves as our understanding of the universe does to.

"Oh, maybe passage X was about black holes, and it was just written in the context of the person's view of the world at the time!"

No... passage X really states that the magic monkey gave the prophet a magic banana. Nothing about black holes to be found there.

Not sure what you mean here...

I just made that up... don't run with it. But, you know what I mean.

[Drake]

The bible tells us to TEST all that we are told and it warns us that even the Word of God is not tamper proof.
Jeremiah warned and cursed the scribes for attributing false things that they wanted people to believe was the word of God.


Our understandging of God is based only in PART on the bible, God's wonderous work of the universe is another part of that.
It is right that our understanding of God evolves as our understanding of the universe does to.






Not sure what you mean here...

I'm saying a lot of what is now being interpreted as metaphorical, in light of modern science, may very well be meant in the literal sense.

[Lucas]

hes saying what a lot of non religious people have issue with in 'bibles' like how religious people are changing things to make them right when factual contradicitons are found in reality based sciences as time continues on. our understanding at the time of these writings was so small that many contridictions have popped up throught time as a result of ignorance of the universe at the time of ink to parchment.

the easiest and best is 'oh you're just being tested'

one of my favs is how some religous people dont believe the dinosaurs were real....seriously? oh and faith healing your kids to death...yeah...

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm saying a lot of what is now being interpreted as metaphorical, in light of modern science, may very well be meant in the literal sense.

Oh, I see.
Well, Augustine postulated that God, being outside the space-time continuem is NOT subject to it and that before the existence of the universe there was no time as we know it.
Augustine postulated that, setting in motion the creation of the universe, God created time along with the universe.
The big bang theory is inline with this view.

[Lucas]

the problem for non religious people is that anyone can postulate anything to make anything sound right. its easy, i can do it too.....

[sanjuro_ronin]

the problem for non religious people is that anyone can postulate anything to make anything sound right. its easy, i can do it too.....

Augustine was a Christian and living in about 300 AD, he wrote many apologetic books and replies, he also shanked the poodle with his development of the "orginal sin" doctrine.

[Drake]

Oh, I see.
Well, Augustine postulated that God, being outside the space-time continuem is NOT subject to it and that before the existence of the universe there was no time as we know it.
Augustine postulated that, setting in motion the creation of the universe, God created time along with the universe.
The big bang theory is inline with this view.

That doesn't even make a lick of sense. How can anything be outside of the space-time continuum? And the big bang isn't necessarily the creation of the universe. It's the expansion of something that had existed prior, and may only be a portion of the greater vastness of space. I cannot accept that the big bang was the creation of everything, because that isn't proven, and also would require a broad assumption that what we know of the universe is all there is. That's poor scientific reasoning.

And nowhere does any scientific manuscript suggest that there was no time before the big bang. Most assume there was, as the opposite would not make sense.

And you seriously think Augustine had that level of scientific clarity about the universe? I'm willing to bet his logic and views were much more simplistic.

[Syn7]

examples??? sure... lets see what i can come up with in a 2 minute ggogle search...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/251815.stm

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00033.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/04/wo...pagewanted=all

http://www.panorama.ru/works/patr/bp/finre.html

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/con...76042000312203

http://www.religioustolerance.org/cr_ident.htm

http://atheism.about.com/library/glo...kukluxklan.htm

http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikt...ian_death.html

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countr...tfits/nlft.htm

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countr...ts/NLFT_tl.htm

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...eUrTNCtT-SYWxg

http://www.endhereditaryreligion.com...ndoctrination/

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/loca...955e64adf.html

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...-by-priests.do

http://articles.sfgate.com/1998-07-1...s-death-squads

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/loc...acks_1_1888095

http://www.thegaymanifesto.com/2010/...the-gays-bill/

http://www.publiceye.org/rightist/salvi.html

http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/webl...ted-of-murder/

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abort...ames_kopp.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/05/31...ile/index.html

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/04/texas-taliban/

http://www.blog.repentamarillo.com/ You should call these guys up, blue... friends?

http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2008/0...eek-theocracy/

http://www.siena.org/July-2009/death...ta-muerte.html

http://www.cleveland.com/world/index...otests_sh.html




you want more? coz theres a million of em... but here i showed big groups, small groups, individuals, all over the world, and right in your back yard... but maybe if i can be bothered, later i'll take a few minutes and put together a good 2 or three pages worth of quality links...


blue, your knowledge of the world outside the US sucks balls... your view is so narrow... to suggest there arent hundreds of christian terror groups is to ignore reality... of course you dont hear about it every day on the news... its not a popular fact among christians, especially the ones that point at islam as an evil violent religion... but the simple fact of the matter is that there are a TON of christian terror groups... One of them is even in your own back yard...

[Syn7]

Oh, I see.
Well, Augustine postulated that God, being outside the space-time continuem is NOT subject to it and that before the existence of the universe there was no time as we know it.
Augustine postulated that, setting in motion the creation of the universe, God created time along with the universe.
The big bang theory is inline with this view.

there are many versions of the big bang theory and not all fit in with genesis... especially when you are taking it from a many-worlders perspective... the closer we come to unification, the further we get from the singular bigbang genesis theory...

[sanjuro_ronin]

That doesn't even make a lick of sense. How can anything be outside of the space-time continuum? And the big bang isn't necessarily the creation of the universe. It's the expansion of something that had existed prior, and may only be a portion of the greater vastness of space. I cannot accept that the big bang was the creation of everything, because that isn't proven, and also would require a broad assumption that what we know of the universe is all there is. That's poor scientific reasoning.

And nowhere does any scientific manuscript suggest that there was no time before the big bang. Most assume there was, as the opposite would not make sense.

And you seriously think Augustine had that level of scientific clarity about the universe? I'm willing to bet his logic and views were much more simplistic.

I think you missed the point, Augustine was NOT interpreting Genesis literally, even 1700 years ago.
The big bang relates that the universe HAD a beginning, it is expanding and all that is expanding must have had a beginning.
There was no space or time BEFORE there was space and time.
There are theories that the universe always was or there are multiple universese in different dimensions, but there is no evidence, much less proof of that.
Though one can argue that if there are mulitple dimensions and multiple universe that "heaven and God" can exist in one of those.
I mean, if we are just speculating for speculation sake with no evidence needed.

Quantum physics, like Einstien postulated, views time as relevant to context.
There is no reason to assume time was ever present before the universe began NOR to assume time works the same way or even exists in other dimensions.