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Thread: having two sifus

  1. #16
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    @kristcaldwell
    Training under Wing Lam was an honor and a privilege. I wouldn't be where I am today without his tutelage and I'm embarrassed that I could only maintain a small fraction of his teachings. However, as you say, this is rather OT here. Perhaps we can take up this discussion on some WL thread in the Shaolin forum.

    Back OT, I've always been a huge advocate of cross-training, however that should begin on the intermediate level, not the beginning level. I know a lot of students that never got anywhere because they never spent enough time under one system to get a good foundation. On the flip side, I've known plenty of students who started in the wrong style - and by that I mean a style that didn't fit their character - and they didn't progress as martial artists until they moved on to something else.

    With TCMA, there's another issue and that's one of Confucian loyalty. To some degree, that's antiquated, especially with beginners here in the West. However, on a deeper level, it's all about loyalty. If you aren't grateful to your teachers, you don't really understand the tradition.
    Gene Ching
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Rob View Post
    I have trained 2 systems for 12 years at the same time. And still do. I try not to mix.(CLF long range, LY short range).
    I have trained many systems. I find it's very difficult not to mix it. It's like eating salad, potato, seafood, and desert. It's impossible to keep it separate in your stomach. When you face a fight, it's very difficult to decide whether you should use WC "chain punches", Mantis "waist chop", Baji "elbow strike", XingYi "Beng Chuan", Longfist "jumping kick", SC "knee seize", Zimen "death touch", or Taiji "Qi ball" to kill your enemy.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    I have trained many systems. I find it's very difficult not to mix it. It's like eating salad, potato, seafood, and desert. It's impossible to keep it separate in your stomach. When you face a fight, it's very difficult to decide whether you should use WC "chain punches", Mantis "waist chop", Baji "elbow strike", XingYi "Beng Chuan", Longfist "jumping kick", SC "knee seize", Zimen "death touch", or Taiji "Qi ball" to kill your enemy.
    when having sex.

    you don't think about whether you will use "***** thrust" or "***** thrust."

    it all come naturally
    It is bias to think that the art of war is just for killing people. It is not to kill people, it is to kill evil. It is a strategem to give life to many people by killing the evil of one person.
    - Yagyū Munenori

  4. #19
    in respond to YKW post about what to use.

    whatever you do more will come out.

    I was trying to say my broken french to a french college student that came to taiwan to learn chinese.

    his chinese is better than my french.

    we were watching a puppet show about 3 kingdoms, guan gong vs many generals, he passed 5 passes and took out 6 generals. in recently opened taipei youth park in 1970s.

    I tried to explain tales of guan gong in french.

    the french student told me that we may communicate in chinese.

    what a relief, but also this pushed me to learn more french.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma5BOoSpB4E

    I used chinese instead of french etc etc

    Last edited by SPJ; 03-07-2011 at 12:36 PM.

  5. #20
    chinese puppet show is more complicated than french puppet show.


  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaolin_allan View Post
    thanks everyone for sharing your experiences. I figured there would be some who would say it's a bad idea, but I was also looking to see if others have worked with more than one sifu, so it looks like it is possible. I agree though that I really need to take a look at my time and health/energy to really see if I should stick to one teacher for now. Hey dim I saw that your styles listed you have kali and bagua which is similar to what I have done. What is your opinion on cross training in a style like kali while doing kung fu?
    I would say, in no uncertain terms, if your money and time will allow DO IT. If you can get a background in FMA (kali, arnis, escrima) the pedagogical method and way of training they have will teach you a great deal about HOW martial arts can be trained. Most CMAs "teach martial arts according to a certain idea". FMA have a "different idea".
    It's not just the "Wing Chun teaches this Shenfa and prefers these tactics, Bagua teaches this *other* Shenfa and prefers these tactics". That is true, but they teach their different shenfa and different tactics in a SIMILAR manner. FMA have a DIFFERENT manner of teaching tactics and strategy. It will be FAR FAR FAR easier to keep the two styles separate in your body and mind for a few years to study FMA *and* a CMA, than to study two CMAs at the same time.

    I would honestly, if I were you, say "go with the CMA where you have the good involved invested teacher, and learn FMA as your cross-training". This is probably Wing Chun judging by your teacher's post in the thread earlier. Train those really hard for a few years. Wing Chun and FMA work well together (like peanut butter and chocolate). Bagua and FMA work well together (like coffee and chocolate). But Wing Chun and Bagua together (peanut butter flavored coffee???) will *fight with each other* much more.

    That's my .02$.... and I wouldn't have put it out there if you hadn't asked me directly.
    I'd go with the Wing Chun AND the FMA if I were you. Then once you have 3-5 years with two somethings relatively easy to get middling good at.. THEN go do bagua.

    Reese cups for a few years.. then once you are an "Adult".. develop a taste for coffee.
    "The first stage is to get the Gang( hard, solid power). every movement should be done with full power and in hard way, also need to get the twisting and wrapping power, whole body's tendon and bones need to be stretched to get the Gang( hard) power. "
    -Bi Tianzou -

  7. #22
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    With TCMA, there's another issue and that's one of Confucian loyalty. To some degree, that's antiquated, especially with beginners here in the West. However, on a deeper level, it's all about loyalty. If you aren't grateful to your teachers, you don't really understand the tradition.

    Most here are focusing on the cross training aspect of having 2 sifu's but I think the loyalty issue is a much bigger one.

    I've been training with my current sifu (choy lay fut) for along time. I've also done some cross training with another school (shaolin) that is within walking distance from my clf school. Cross training wise i am able to train both to some extent and my cross training in shaolin has helped with my clf but........

    I can never really totally belong to the shaolin school and take part in performances and other activities because my loyalty lies with my clf sifu who shows me the same sense of loyalty as my sifu. With the 2 schools so close how can I help the shaolin school compete with my sifu. Also I don't feel it's fair to the shaolin instructors to not fulfill my duties as a student.

    Interesting to note that i have cross trained is several other systems where this issue never came up. I suppose because those other instructors where never close or in direct competition with my sifu.

    I guess you my point is you can have more than one teacher but you can't have more than one sifu, at least in the traditional sense, since the duties of a student to his sifu extend past learning kung fu and involve other duties to the system and school
    Last edited by Shaolindynasty; 03-07-2011 at 01:56 PM.
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  8. #23
    1. in regards to learning 2 styles/systems at the same time

    to me, a style/system is consisted of favored techiques/tactics/strategy

    we compiled them together and gave them a theme.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSB2ew4P7e0

    Sylvie put her favorite songs together and gave them a theme of twist.

    she placed her own song at the end for finale.

    ---

    my point is that ultimately, we have to organize what we have learned or gathered

    and gave them our own theme

    ---

    2. giving credits to teachers, I learned so and so from so and so. we have to give the teacher or teachers his or their credits.

    ---


  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ View Post
    whatever you do more will come out.
    It's you that make that difference and not your styles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Violent Designs View Post
    when having sex.

    you don't think about whether you will use "***** thrust" or "***** thrust."

    it all come naturally
    If your love one is happy (your enemy is killed), you know you are doing the right thing.

  10. #25
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    Puppet show, SPJ? Really?

    If I told them once, I told them a thousand times - Spinal Tap first, puppet show second
    @shaolin_allan - I did get to train under Grandmaster Sun Jianyun - a few private lessons and some group ones too. She was amazing and inspirational, and I'm rather embarrassed to say that I don't practice Sun style anymore (I can barely keep up with my Shaolin regimen). My very first article for our magazine was on Sun Style. See 1997 December/January issue, Radical Taiji: The Rising Sun of Taiji. Like with kristcaldwell, shaolin_allan, if you want to take this discussion up on our Tai Chi forum, I'll meet you down there.

    Back OT to this forum, Wing Lam later became a disciple of Grandmaster Sun. I was sent as an early emissary, to pave the way in a manner of speaking. I presented her with a banner gift from Wing Lam. Strange as it may seem, I actually learned Sun Style before Wing Lam. But now, I've forsaken it. He still practices it, so there you have it.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  11. #26
    I'm training at two different kung fu schools and two different BJJ schools.

    There are ups (different perspectives, the ability to work on something else for a while whenever I get too frustrated, wider pool of training partners, bigger buffet of class dates/times..)

    and downs (NOT ENOUGH HOURS IN THE DAY, getting conflicting instructions sometimes, political crapola, cost...)

    Give it a trial run and re-eval in a couple months.

    The moment they ask us to choose between two different paths, the implicit message is that we can only follow one. -Daniele Bolelli, On The Warrior’s Path

  12. #27
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    Train with as many people as you can as often as you can and you will see the results.

    Ultimately, you'll see good mechanics, leverage and position are universal.... and that wing chun possesses none of these
    Last edited by Ray Pina; 03-08-2011 at 10:55 AM.

  13. #28
    in response to Gene

    yes, it was chinese cultural festival in the park.

    we were there to perform some swordplay, shuai jiao demo and long fists.

    while we were taking a break.

    I was naturally attracted to puppet shows. or bu dai xi or bo dei hi.

    and this french college student was there and paid attention to puppet show.

    so I started some conversation--

    --


  14. #29
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    Teacher 1: You should always attack, attack, and attack. It's better to lose by attack than to win by defense.
    Teacher 2: If your opponent doesn't move, you don't move. If he moves, you move faster than him.

  15. #30
    spj, you post the most random vids...

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