Chi Sau/Sao Et Cetera

[Phil Redmond]

Here's a clip for the recent MD Chi Sau seminar
Chi Sau forward intent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2ZwYDbSK1k

This clip wasn't from the seminar but was from class in NJ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfOfpdn75RA

[Phil Redmond]

Here's some Dan Chi Sau
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VUuW4mdizQ

[Phil Redmond]

And some "Et Cetera"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg0nSAOpQ8A
Tan and Wu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1WLJRGA3_4

It's raining and I'm inside so excuse my video "rant"

[Graham H]

Interesting stuff although I am surprised at how different our lineages are. Your main focus is the wrist and ours is the elbow. By using the elbow in the way we do it allows us to attack and clear the way for the punch simultaneously. Two tools using one arm. With the wrist contact this would not be possible and would need two actions using one arm. My thinking on Ving Tsun sees that as an error. An error for my system that is. I also was a bit surprised how high the dummy was. Thats always the case with "wristy" systems. Our dummy sits a lot lower so we can use the arms as reference for the elbow and also teaches one not to flap the elbows about in fighting. This idea is everywhere in our forms an serves as a means of correction. Another big error in my lineage is pressing with Bong Sau but in your system its advocated.

Its very interesting how our lineage is for correcting errors that in yours are everywhere.

In our system Dan Chi is for correcting the error of using the wrist amongst other things yet your wrist seems to be locked to your students wrist.

As you know in our system Tan Sau and Fook Sau are concepts and methods for training and developing the correct way of punching. Many systems use Tan Sau to block and Fook Sau to move arms about. Its a massive faux pas in my lineage.
I'm not saying yours is any less effective in any way but the differences are so huge and yet our line to Yip Man is very close.

Hope its stopped raining LOL

GH

[Phil Redmond]

Interesting stuff although I am surprised at how different our lineages are. Your main focus is the wrist and ours is the elbow. By using the elbow in the way we do it allows us to attack and clear the way for the punch simultaneously. Two tools using one arm. With the wrist contact this would not be possible and would need two actions using one arm. . . . .
GH

I would never said our main focus is in the wrist. I said you use the wrist to move the arm and the elbow to control the arm. You use the wrist on the dummy.
Also our dummy is the way Yip Man designed it since the original plans for the first HK dummy were given the Cheung King Kong, William Cheung's older brother.
http://web.archive.org/web/200607170...oodendummy.htm
I understand where you're coming from having studied the "mainstream" WC for 13 years. I was even a Sifu before I studied TWC. It's all good. I just prefer what I do now since it's worked for me in full contact events. Most fighters are headhunters so I teach to cover the head. Which is wrong and which is right depends of the fighter. I know people from outside my lineage that i wouldn't want to tangle with. That lineage superiority thing is moot to me. If you compete against people outside of your school you'll find what works for you and what doesn't.

[Graham H]

If you compete against people outside of your school you'll find what works for you and what doesn't.

I totally agree!!!!

GH

[Phil Redmond]

Here's something I was taught by at least 5 of the WC Sifus I studied with over the last 40 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJnu80hM4wE

[Graham H]

Ok, in our system the dummy does NOT represent human arms. The level and the angle of the "limbs" are important and are purely for training the correct behaviour of the elbow. Even though in some actions the wrist does touch the dummy limb, the action is from the elbow and we have to consider that the dummy is fixed therefore some actions like huen sau are not performed as they are on a human who's limbs move. The dummy looks as though it has human form hence the name "wooden man" but it is not a man. The dummy has evolved so that the practitioner can hone the correct behaviour of the body. It increases the special "shock" force needed and also contains some ideas of recovery and the correction of natural errors that humans tend to make in fighting and when a lot of speed and force are used. The dummy defines limits!!!

In previous lineages I have been taught that the arms represent human limbs etc etc but when I met my instructor many unanswered questions were answered and gaps filled in. For once everything fitted and clicked together.

Anyway these are just words but it is evident that Wing Chun is a very generic term these days.

GH

[k gledhill]

On the dummy our thinking uses the elbow &wrists as alignment points, like front sight , rear sight.
the wrists arent moving off the target, neither are the
fists/palms.
the dummy is simply reinforcing the unity of SLT & CK , aligned striking with tactical,mobile, facing movement of bodyweight and aligmmemt of cycling actions we repeat while firing along with other ideas........

[Phil Redmond]

Ok, in our system the dummy does NOT represent human arms. The level and the angle of the "limbs" are important and are purely for training the correct behaviour of the elbow. Even though in some actions the wrist does touch the dummy limb, the action is from the elbow and we have to consider that the dummy is fixed therefore some actions like huen sau are not performed as they are on a human who's limbs move. The dummy looks as though it has human form hence the name "wooden man" but it is not a man. The dummy has evolved so that the practitioner can hone the correct behaviour of the body. It increases the special "shock" force needed and also contains some ideas of recovery and the correction of natural errors that humans tend to make in fighting and when a lot of speed and force are used. The dummy defines limits!!!

In previous lineages I have been taught that the arms represent human limbs etc etc but when I met my instructor many unanswered questions were answered and gaps filled in. For once everything fitted and clicked together.

Anyway these are just words but it is evident that Wing Chun is a very generic term these days.

GH

If you're satisfied with your teachings and they make sense to you that's all that should matter. Right my friend?

[Graham H]

If you're satisfied with your teachings and they make sense to you that's all that should matter. Right my friend?

Right.

[Violent Designs]

Always presenting interesting and educational videos, Redmond sifu. I enjoyed these quite so.

[bennyvt]

really liked the first video, good explaination with potential forward force. really liked the bong stuff.
question is hoon sao is an elbow movement then why do you do it on a thing that doesn't move therefore practicing what you don't want to do.

[Phil Redmond]

really liked the first video, good explaination with potential forward force. really liked the bong stuff.
question is hoon sao is an elbow movement then why do you do it on a thing that doesn't move therefore practicing what you don't want to do.

Thanks, Around :53 there are two Huen Saus to the wrist. There is no way he would Huen at the elbow from the inside here.
After the Jut Saus here: 1:00 he Huens at the wrist. No one would Jut at the elbow and Huen at the elbow. I'd like to add that although there are slight various differences among students of Yip Man. I did the WC most people do for 13 years. I had the same questions and disbelief when I first saw TWC. My first reactions were that it was wrong, it's not WC and what the heck are they doing? OMT would you Huen to the elbow from the inside????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=581N17XHmq0

[Phil Redmond]

Always presenting interesting and educational videos, Redmond sifu. I enjoyed these quite so.

Thanks, I keep on TWChunning even though I'm outnumbered . . .lol