Shaolin Kempo Karate... Thoughts?

[Ironpig]

And remember to ignore the political stuff...like what I am spapping at the mouth about and have a great time.

Dark Knight, I agree that the word 'Penan' is used to describe sets in the Villari's system, but go to a japanese martial art school and see the MAJOR differences and the ommisions. Altered sets. Missing meaning.

I was told the 'Kata' forms were the Heian sets from shotokan. nope...not even close.

The animal forms I saw performed and learned were...innovative and interesting...but have little to do with the classical chinese forms for the animals other than the names being similiar.

I admit I am bitter, burned out and badly in need of a vacation.

I have posted on this before, I end up saying the same thing every time:

Villari's martial art is just that, Frd Villari's martial art. It may have been deeply influenced by other arts, but now it HIS art in full. I believe he and his art does himself a disservice for calling it anything else.

Fred Villari created an art that shoudl be able to stand on its own without claiming to have bettered so many lineages. Literally stating: using all the good and omitting all of the bad techniques.

listed as they were when I was there:

Shaolin Kempo Karate, Kung Fu, Jiu Jitsu and Tai Chi.

Shaolin is a life study all by itself to gain any real benefit from it. Northern or southern. Having studied Northern and having good friends practicing Hung Gar, never learned any in Villari's.

Kempo is an art unto itself.

Karate is an art unto itself.

Kung Fu is a generic term for martial arts, also kind of like 'Xerox', adds brand name recognition.

Jiu Jitsu is also an art unto itself, a lifetime study.

Tai Chi CHUAN, as it should be called when you are referring to the martial art, is an art UNTO itself as well.

To have all of those influences is great, I can really appreciate the work he put into his art.

He should just cut the crap and call it what it is: Villari Do.

I have yet to meet an instructor that really impresses me. My brother and a good friend are ranked teachers in the style. They have good skills, both get a sheepish look on their face when you ask about the over the top style of lineage claiming.

Its just not needed.

Okay, Rant is done.

That all above having been said, I would study it today if I could get an honest answer from an instructor that wasnt an advertisement.

Jenn, you just go, ignore us old bitter folk and ENJOY yourself.

**** I need a vacation. I need a LONG vacation.

just a few pennies from a pig.....
-"bigger is BIGGER"

IronPig

[Dark Knight]

"That all above having been said, I would study it today if I could get an honest answer from an instructor that wasnt an advertisement."

That is so true. I never really appreciated the style until I left and spent years with other styles to see what is in the Villari system.

I like the system, but no one teaches it very well, information is not complete (For example the meaning of the forms is not tought)The Knung Fu forms are not KF, mabey KF influenced but they are not KF forms.

"Fred Villari created an art that shoudl be able to stand on its own without claiming to have bettered so many lineages. "

I agree, but he is also a business and makes some decisions on money.

[rogue]

Quality control of instructors does seem to bite. I don't think there's anything wrong with creating your own legitimate system(meaning it works) Bruce Lee did it and he's almost a god to some people, so why not Villari.


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

[nobody]

"bruce lee is almost a god to some people" that is quite true, but i find that quite ironic, because all he wanted to be know as was a true human being...

[Dark Knight]

"Bruce Lee did it and he's almost a god to some people, so why not Villari."

Sometimes dieing can be the best thing for a career.

[rogue]

Then again Villari brings a lot of the abuse for his system upon himself. Contrived name, the questionable quality control, etc.


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

[Dark Knight]

"Then again Villari brings a lot of the abuse for his system upon himself. Contrived name, the questionable quality control, etc."

The system itself is a good system. Its greatest strength is its greatest weakness, too much information. Most people can find what works best for them in it. (Out side of specializing in sporting events, its not NHB, or Olympic TKD or Judo tournament stuff)

But it covers so much that it takes a long time to find your nich and work on it.

If you were to find a knowledgeable instructor in the system (unluckily too may are clueless) the theory's, concepts, information and techniques are comp. to any style.

(But we see this in every style, I even met a guy who teaches "Brazillian Style Jiu-Jitsu" Im not sure what that is)

The biggest problem Villari has is Villari. The schools worry to much about getting money from the students. I know of schools that have hundreds of students and because of the enrollment do not charge for testing (enough money comes in from the monthly fees)Villari tries new ways of getting a few more bucks out of the individual schools.

Quality control is another problem, good system but he lets anyone throw his name on the door for a price. You can walk into a school and have a great instructor, or a smoking fat guy who cant teach a dog starving to beg.

Villari could ave been a leading name in modern martial arts, but money is keeping him back.

[rogue]

Talk about testing for dollars, I once got to test twice in one month! It was wrong, but my ego needed stroking. :D


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

[SKK]

The forms in the Villari system may be taken from another martial art, they may not. Who cares? How can anyone say they came up with a certain type of movement? How can you claim to own the idea of movement?

The important thing is that the instrcutors understand the forms. There is a HUGE difference between 1 Pinion and 2 Pinion. PLENTY of schools have taken the forms/katas from the Villari system (USSD), and while they can perform them, they aren't moving properly as they do them. You see they don't 'get the point'.

As far as I know the only form Fred Villari actually takes credit for comming up with is Sho Tung Kwok. A form only a second degree black belt in the Villari system learns. This form contains hints of all parts of the style. It is very shaolin in its movements. Its easier to teach someone who knows karate and kempo how to move like a shaolin than it is to teach someone who knows nothign about moving their body.

Also, there is another form, where the premise of the form is a karate form, being performed BY a Shaolin. It has the rigid stances of karate but grazes through them gracefully as a shaolin.

I didn't tell you anyting that cannot be found on wikipedia.

[jstreet]

http://www.austinkenpokarate.com/

How does this style of Karate differ from SKK?

[TenTigers]

JSTREET-no, that is from Ed Parker's Kenpo, which is a completely different breed than Villari's. Ed Parker learned from William Chow, and although Chow taught Nick Cerio who taught Villari, they branched off into two completely different directions. Parker's stuff is very good, very technical.

[shaolin monkey3]

If you concern yourself with reputation you will find that the school you go to has none.

There will always be people who will nay say and grief post crap about whatever you do.

Just look for truth in the techniques, expose yourself to as many arts and practitioners as possible and be open to the idea that you may not have the be all end all art that is advertised.

Did I mention have fun?

I left Fred Villari's because I couldn't get a straight answer from the top masters on lineage and where the forms came from. When I asked one too many times I was told that I was being disrespectful. WTF? If they didnt know they could have just said so, I would still be there researching the answers myself.

Your experience may be different, have a great time and try to pull good skills and some friends from ANY experience.

just a few pennies from a pig.....
-"bigger is BIGGER"

IronPig

Fred villari made alot of the forms after black belt.

[shaolin monkey3]

"Then again Villari brings a lot of the abuse for his system upon himself. Contrived name, the questionable quality control, etc."

The system itself is a good system. Its greatest strength is its greatest weakness, too much information. Most people can find what works best for them in it. (Out side of specializing in sporting events, its not NHB, or Olympic TKD or Judo tournament stuff)

But it covers so much that it takes a long time to find your nich and work on it.

If you were to find a knowledgeable instructor in the system (unluckily too may are clueless) the theory's, concepts, information and techniques are comp. to any style.

(But we see this in every style, I even met a guy who teaches "Brazillian Style Jiu-Jitsu" Im not sure what that is)

The biggest problem Villari has is Villari. The schools worry to much about getting money from the students. I know of schools that have hundreds of students and because of the enrollment do not charge for testing (enough money comes in from the monthly fees)Villari tries new ways of getting a few more bucks out of the individual schools.

Quality control is another problem, good system but he lets anyone throw his name on the door for a price. You can walk into a school and have a great instructor, or a smoking fat guy who cant teach a dog starving to beg.

Villari could ave been a leading name in modern martial arts, but money is keeping him back.

If you think villaris is bad check out USSD, villaris student broke off(Charles mattera) 15 or so years ago and now charges some where between 180 to 225 a MONTH!

I have found in charles mattera's organization ussd to run by red belts and 1st and 2nd degrees.

[Citong Shifu]

I just got done reviewing Villari's website, since I didnt really know anything about Shaolin Kempo Karate... WTH! Villari makes several statements concerning Karate blows are much more explosive than Shaolin Kung fu blows, allowing karate to execute fewer moves to get the job done. Also, Shaolin Kung Fu has more patterns of multiple strike, making it easier to counter attack, etc.

Well, I Dont know what this guy is thinking, but I can tell you right now He's 100% wrong, in all aspects of Shaolin Kung Fu, power, stance, patterns, etc. For someone who mastered Shaolin kung fu, he sure doesnt know jack about it.

I really dont care what the guys calls his style. But, there's no authentic Shaolin there. Jenn, I agree with ten tiger, Run.

[sk girl]

If you think villaris is bad check out USSD, villaris student broke off(Charles mattera) 15 or so years ago and now charges some where between 180 to 225 a MONTH!

I have found in charles mattera's organization ussd to run by red belts and 1st and 2nd degrees.

Yes this true. A lot of people consider mattera the con man of martial arts.