William Cheung's ANTI-CLF Tactics

[goju]

since we are talking about the man has anyone seen this before, i found it amazing that all these wing chun guys actually managed to agree enough to write this!

not suprising at all given the politics and business in that style many people join together in organizations and bad mouth the others

[Phil Redmond]

William Cheung's response to a letter from the
leading masters of Wing Chun. This version comes from Australasian fighting
Arts
Vol 10 nr 3.


************************************************** ******************


Firstly, I want to point out that the statement by the Ving Tsun Athletic
Association in their letter that the "the association was founded by the
late
grandmaster Yip Man and most of his senior student since 1976" is not true,
because Yip Man died in 1971. So he couldn't have founded the Ving Tsun
Athletic Association in 1976 as claimed.
I shall attempt to answer their letter point by point:
(1) I am the leader of the Traditional Wing Chun because I am the only
person
who inherited the whole Traditional system of Wing Chun. Furthermore, I also
know the modified version thoroughly, and know that it is inferior to the
Traditional system. I therefore proclaim myself the Grandmaster of the
Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu. If anyone does not think so, he can come and
see me and I will be more than too pleased to show him.
(2) I was the only person that Grandmaster Yip Man chose to carry on the
whole Traditional Wing Chun system. I am the best fighter in the Wing Chun
Style. This was acknowledged by the late Bruce Lee, and recognized by many
famous masters of other styles. I anyone needs proof, I would only be too
pleased to oblige.
(3) Nobody - I say nobody - was taught the traditional Wing Chun footwork
but
me. I Leung Ting and company knew it, they would be showing their students.
It
is like the case of the Bil Jee form. Nobody knew the proper form except me
and that is why they have been telling people that the Bil Jee form was too
dangerous even to show it; in order to cover up the fact that they don't
know
it. I was the first WEing Chun master to put Bil Jee in a book so that
everyone can learn the correct version.
(4)Dim Mak or disabling Pressure Point Techniques was passed on to me, along
with the whole Traditional system of Wing Chun. If you have read my article
on
the subject you might understand how it works. However, ther is no medicine
for
ignorance; Leung Ting and company deny the existence because they don't know
it. At least this time they admit their ignorance. My book on Dim Mak, or
Disabling Pressure Point Techniques, will be on the market soon. Keep your
eyes open. In china there is a Kung Fu monk who could stand upside down on
one
or two hands. Some people can break a half dozen inch boards with a punch.
Maybe there are people who can stand on a dozen eggs. I can stand on two
without breaking them. All these can be called tricks if you like, but the
fact is that I am still "the best Wing Chun Fighter". I dare anyone to prove
otherwise.
(5) It is irrelevant to argue whether Yip Man had made be take an oath
before
he taught me the complete Traditional Wing Chun System, because no-one else
was privileged to witness it. The fact is, that after 36 years of training
in
Wing Chun, I have the confidence to say that I am the most knowledgeable
master in the Wing Chun System and I am the best fighter, and I am willing
to
prove it to them at any time, anywhere. Unlike Leung Ting and company, as
shown in the photo, you only have to take one look at them to realize that
none of them look that part of martial artists. I could safely say that none
of them have done any hard training in recent years. They certainly don't
look
very impressive!
In the 50's I was a kid . . . so was Bruce Lee . . . full of enthusiasm and
energy. We learned Wing Chun together and we were determined to make a name
for Wing Chun and ourselves. And we did. In the 50's Leung Ting was still
"in
his diapers". He didn't learn Wing Chun until the 1960's from Leung
Chun,(Yip
Man's student) of his own admission. He is one generation behind Bruce and
me.
However, according to the article published in "Secrets of Kung Fu" Vol 2
1977, hundred of Kung Fu masters in Hong Kong - including Leung Chun, Yip
Shun, Tsui Sheng tin, and Wong Shun Leung - denounced Leung Ting in very
strong terms (I have enclosed copies) Leung Shun was reportedly saying that
Leung Ting wasn't learning from him, but from his student Jah Bak. This
makes
Leung Ting two generation behind Bruce Lee and I.
And Leung Ting's claim that he was Yip Man's closed door student is on what
grounds? In the 60's, Yip Man was a heavy drug user, and did not enjoy very
good health. There was no way that Yip Man could have taught anyone in that
state of health. Even his own sons, Yip Chun and Yip Ching, who came to Hong
Kong in the 1960's, had to be content to train with Yip Man's senior
students.
Wing Chun is a system which was developed for one to be able to master in
three to four years. Grandmaster Yip Man, from age of twelve to sixteen,
learned four years part time the modified version of Wing Chun with Chan Wah
Shun and, from age 17, he learned 2 years traditional Wing Chun from Leung
Buk
(Leung Jung's son) in Hong Kong. Wong Shun Leung only learned modified Wing
Chun for three years part time and he began teaching in early 1955. Loh Liu
probably started teaching after only 2 years part time training in the
modified version.
I studied Wing Chun for 4 and one half years part time in the modified
version, and then 2 and one half years full time in the traditional version,
when I was living with Yip Man. I learned the modified version as well as
the
traditional version. After I completed my learning, I have continued to
practice for a further 28 years, and I still practice daily.
From these factors you can see that I am the most qualified practitioner in
both modified and traditional versions of Wing Chun Kung Fu. I proclaim
myself
the most knowledgeable master and the best fighter in the whole Wing Chun
style.
I would like to close off with a very famous Chinese proverb : "Practicing
Kung Fu is like paddling upstream - if you don't go forward, you must go
backward, and seldom you stay in the same spot". It is no surprise to find
the
whole group in the printed photo appear to have gone so far backward that I
would be ashamed to be associated with them.

William Cheung
Grandmaster

[Phil Redmond]

After the letter I posted was written William Cheung went to Hong Kong to meet with leading WC people there. He told them what Yip Man showed him and even demonstrated the forms for them. I have that footage. He also had a friendly sparring session with Wong Shun Leung. There are still of that session on youtube. The thing that's interesting is that while William Cheung was meeting with his seniors and others no one challenged what he was saying. They even took group pictures. It was after Wm. Cheung left for Australia that the talk started. I wonder why no one said anything while he was there.
This is old news. I've know about this before I met William Cheung in 1983. Why are we still discussing this? It doesn't make our KF better. The only way to do that is to test what you do against resisting opponents. The key word in "Martial" Arts is the word "Martial" which comes from the God of War, Mars. It seems like too many people are "Theory" artists nowadays. Those are the people involved in lineage battles and trash talking. I never trash talk as I have close friends in many different "Martial" arts.

[Hendrik]

Phil,


IMHumble Opinion,

Every one is correct on WCK . So that is no need to argue if one sees the big pictures.



in Ipman WCK system
The Chan Wah's WCK is the Traditional WCK.
The today's Ipman WCK is a evolution based on YKS WCK.


In Red boat, there are two types of WCK
a, the Siu Lien Tau system which is the original art brought to the red boat, this looks like today's YKS, Koo Lo, Yik Kam SLT.

b, the WCK which evolve with Southern TCMA such as the Chan Wah's WCK.

Ipman knows both because he learn both.





So, within the IpMan system, yes there is the so called Traditional WCK from Bill, and there is the evolution version based on YKS done by IpMan.

But, IpMan system doesnt and cannot represent the whole WCK because there are still many things beyond Ipman's learning. IE from the YKS or Kulo or Yik Kam lineage which is direct from the Red Boat.




These above are the reality on WCK as I see. based on the information which has reveal today from different lineage and time frame.


So, there is not worth to claim which is the best or who is the best. This is an evolution by different people in 150 years of history.



Now, in addition, there is Ever Spring.
That is different with Wing Chun because they are using CLF and other TCMA as core. Wing Chun is based on Siu Lien Tau system core.


However, due to all these exist in the red boat, Wing Chun and Weng Chun are mutual influence and evolve.

[BDBSK]

does anyone have any CLf sparring/fight clips that shows those looping swings in action?

so far the better clf videos ive seen just look like Sand da

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNOfu...el_video_title

This is me here.

CLF is easy to put right off a boxing base, thats why I love it.

I like to knock WT sometimes, but I respect the good fighters a lot. I even train it myself. CLF can look ****sem too. Lots of people say they can just straight blast through those sau chuis or gwa chuis (looping punches), but it's easier said than done.

[BDBSK]

After the letter I posted was written William Cheung went to Hong Kong to meet with leading WC people there. He told them what Yip Man showed him and even demonstrated the forms for them. I have that footage. He also had a friendly sparring session with Wong Shun Leung. There are still of that session on youtube. The thing that's interesting is that while William Cheung was meeting with his seniors and others no one challenged what he was saying. They even took group pictures. It was after Wm. Cheung left for Australia that the talk started. I wonder why no one said anything while he was there.
This is old news. I've know about this before I met William Cheung in 1983. Why are we still discussing this? It doesn't make our KF better. The only way to do that is to test what you do against resisting opponents. The key word in "Martial" Arts is the word "Martial" which comes from the God of War, Mars. It seems like too many people are "Theory" artists nowadays. Those are the people involved in lineage battles and trash talking. I never trash talk as I have close friends in many different "Martial" arts.

Couldnt agree more with the theory part. I was at a kwoon, working on the heavy bag, focus mits, etc etc. Next to me was a teacher talking to his students about fighting. I was renting the place out to train. Anyhow, the teacher talked for like an hour on theory and there I was sweating, grappling with training partners, free flowing back into sparring etc. All the time I was thinking...why not let your students train instead of yabbering the whole time!

[Phil Redmond]

Couldnt agree more with the theory part. I was at a kwoon, working on the heavy bag, focus mits, etc etc. Next to me was a teacher talking to his students about fighting. I was renting the place out to train. Anyhow, the teacher talked for like an hour on theory and there I was sweating, grappling with training partners, free flowing back into sparring etc. All the time I was thinking...why not let your students train instead of yabbering the whole time!

I hear that.

[Phil Redmond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNOfu...el_video_title

This is me here.

CLF is easy to put right off a boxing base, thats why I love it.

I like to knock WT sometimes, but I respect the good fighters a lot. I even train it myself. CLF can look ****sem too. Lots of people say they can just straight blast through those sau chuis or gwa chuis (looping punches), but it's easier said than done.

I also like CLF. I've never trained "officially" but I've had friends show me bits and pieces. Someone with both CLF and WC would be hard to beat.

[CLFNole]

Phil:

Not trying to open up a can of worms but to your knowledge is there any truth to Yip Man having taught many students "a little different"? I heard he would alter how he would teach each student slightly which led to many of the arguements between students as to who was taught correctly etc...

Just curious.

[Phil Redmond]

Phil:

Not trying to open up a can of worms but to your knowledge is there any truth to Yip Man having taught many students "a little different"? I heard he would alter how he would teach each student slightly which led to many of the arguements between students as to who was taught correctly etc...

Just curious.

You are correct. I studied with 4 of Yip Man's students. They've told me exactly that.

[PalmStriker]

William Cheung's response to a letter from the
leading masters of Wing Chun. This version comes from Australasian fighting
Arts
Vol 10 nr 3.


************************************************** ******************


Firstly, I want to point out that the statement by the Ving Tsun Athletic
Association in their letter that the "the association was founded by the
late
grandmaster Yip Man and most of his senior student since 1976" is not true,
because Yip Man died in 1971. So he couldn't have founded the Ving Tsun
Athletic Association in 1976 as claimed.
I shall attempt to answer their letter point by point:
(1) I am the leader of the Traditional Wing Chun because I am the only
person
who inherited the whole Traditional system of Wing Chun. Furthermore, I also
know the modified version thoroughly, and know that it is inferior to the
Traditional system. I therefore proclaim myself the Grandmaster of the
Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu. If anyone does not think so, he can come and
see me and I will be more than too pleased to show him.
(2) I was the only person that Grandmaster Yip Man chose to carry on the
whole Traditional Wing Chun system. I am the best fighter in the Wing Chun
Style. This was acknowledged by the late Bruce Lee, and recognized by many
famous masters of other styles. I anyone needs proof, I would only be too
pleased to oblige.
(3) Nobody - I say nobody - was taught the traditional Wing Chun footwork
but
me. I Leung Ting and company knew it, they would be showing their students.
It
is like the case of the Bil Jee form. Nobody knew the proper form except me
and that is why they have been telling people that the Bil Jee form was too
dangerous even to show it; in order to cover up the fact that they don't
know
it. I was the first WEing Chun master to put Bil Jee in a book so that
everyone can learn the correct version.
(4)Dim Mak or disabling Pressure Point Techniques was passed on to me, along
with the whole Traditional system of Wing Chun. If you have read my article
on
the subject you might understand how it works. However, ther is no medicine
for
ignorance; Leung Ting and company deny the existence because they don't know
it. At least this time they admit their ignorance. My book on Dim Mak, or
Disabling Pressure Point Techniques, will be on the market soon. Keep your
eyes open. In china there is a Kung Fu monk who could stand upside down on
one
or two hands. Some people can break a half dozen inch boards with a punch.
Maybe there are people who can stand on a dozen eggs. I can stand on two
without breaking them. All these can be called tricks if you like, but the
fact is that I am still "the best Wing Chun Fighter". I dare anyone to prove
otherwise.
(5) It is irrelevant to argue whether Yip Man had made be take an oath
before
he taught me the complete Traditional Wing Chun System, because no-one else
was privileged to witness it. The fact is, that after 36 years of training
in
Wing Chun, I have the confidence to say that I am the most knowledgeable
master in the Wing Chun System and I am the best fighter, and I am willing
to
prove it to them at any time, anywhere. Unlike Leung Ting and company, as
shown in the photo, you only have to take one look at them to realize that
none of them look that part of martial artists. I could safely say that none
of them have done any hard training in recent years. They certainly don't
look
very impressive!
In the 50's I was a kid . . . so was Bruce Lee . . . full of enthusiasm and
energy. We learned Wing Chun together and we were determined to make a name
for Wing Chun and ourselves. And we did. In the 50's Leung Ting was still
"in
his diapers". He didn't learn Wing Chun until the 1960's from Leung
Chun,(Yip
Man's student) of his own admission. He is one generation behind Bruce and
me.
However, according to the article published in "Secrets of Kung Fu" Vol 2
1977, hundred of Kung Fu masters in Hong Kong - including Leung Chun, Yip
Shun, Tsui Sheng tin, and Wong Shun Leung - denounced Leung Ting in very
strong terms (I have enclosed copies) Leung Shun was reportedly saying that
Leung Ting wasn't learning from him, but from his student Jah Bak. This
makes
Leung Ting two generation behind Bruce Lee and I.
And Leung Ting's claim that he was Yip Man's closed door student is on what
grounds? In the 60's, Yip Man was a heavy drug user, and did not enjoy very
good health. There was no way that Yip Man could have taught anyone in that
state of health. Even his own sons, Yip Chun and Yip Ching, who came to Hong
Kong in the 1960's, had to be content to train with Yip Man's senior
students.
Wing Chun is a system which was developed for one to be able to master in
three to four years. Grandmaster Yip Man, from age of twelve to sixteen,
learned four years part time the modified version of Wing Chun with Chan Wah
Shun and, from age 17, he learned 2 years traditional Wing Chun from Leung
Buk
(Leung Jung's son) in Hong Kong. Wong Shun Leung only learned modified Wing
Chun for three years part time and he began teaching in early 1955. Loh Liu
probably started teaching after only 2 years part time training in the
modified version.
I studied Wing Chun for 4 and one half years part time in the modified
version, and then 2 and one half years full time in the traditional version,
when I was living with Yip Man. I learned the modified version as well as
the
traditional version. After I completed my learning, I have continued to
practice for a further 28 years, and I still practice daily.
From these factors you can see that I am the most qualified practitioner in
both modified and traditional versions of Wing Chun Kung Fu. I proclaim
myself
the most knowledgeable master and the best fighter in the whole Wing Chun
style.
I would like to close off with a very famous Chinese proverb : "Practicing
Kung Fu is like paddling upstream - if you don't go forward, you must go
backward, and seldom you stay in the same spot". It is no surprise to find
the
whole group in the printed photo appear to have gone so far backward that I
would be ashamed to be associated with them.

William Cheung
Grandmaster

Thanks for posting document, Phil.

[lkfmdc]

William Cheung's response to a letter from the leading masters of Wing Chun. This version comes from Australasian fighting Arts Vol 10 nr 3.


************************************************** ******************


- If anyone does not think so, he can come and see me and I will be more than too pleased to show him.

- I am the best fighter in the Wing Chun Style. This was acknowledged by the late Bruce Lee, and recognized by many famous masters of other styles. anyone needs proof, I would only be too pleased to oblige.

- the fact is that I am still "the best Wing Chun Fighter". I dare anyone to prove
otherwise.

- I have the confidence to say that I am the most knowledgeable
master in the Wing Chun System and I am the best fighter, and I am willing
to prove it to them at any time, anywhere.


- I proclaim myself the most knowledgeable master and the best fighter in the whole Wing Chun style.

William Cheung
Grandmaster

Is there any wonder Emin showed up to fight him ???

[Phil Redmond]

Is there any wonder Emin showed up to fight him ???

That makes sense. But it wasn't one of the Chinese Sifus and it happened when Cheung was an older man. Not when he was in his prime. The whole story of that "event" isn't known to all.

[lkfmdc]

That makes sense. But the whole story of that "event" isn't known to all.

Phil, as strange as this may sound, I have never seen that letter before. I always assumed Emin was just a punk who showed up at a seminar to cause trouble. But I can now see at least a reason why someone would show up after a letter like that.

[Phil Redmond]

Phil,


IMHumble Opinion,

Every one is correct on WCK . So that is no need to argue if one sees the big pictures.



in Ipman WCK system
The Chan Wah's WCK is the Traditional WCK.
The today's Ipman WCK is a evolution based on YKS WCK.


In Red boat, there are two types of WCK
a, the Siu Lien Tau system which is the original art brought to the red boat, this looks like today's YKS, Koo Lo, Yik Kam SLT.

b, the WCK which evolve with Southern TCMA such as the Chan Wah's WCK.

Ipman knows both because he learn both.





So, within the IpMan system, yes there is the so called Traditional WCK from Bill, and there is the evolution version based on YKS done by IpMan.

But, IpMan system doesnt and cannot represent the whole WCK because there are still many things beyond Ipman's learning. IE from the YKS or Kulo or Yik Kam lineage which is direct from the Red Boat.




These above are the reality on WCK as I see. based on the information which has reveal today from different lineage and time frame.


So, there is not worth to claim which is the best or who is the best. This is an evolution by different people in 150 years of history.



Now, in addition, there is Ever Spring.
That is different with Wing Chun because they are using CLF and other TCMA as core. Wing Chun is based on Siu Lien Tau system core.


However, due to all these exist in the red boat, Wing Chun and Weng Chun are mutual influence and evolve.

I agree with you Hendrik. I still say that none of us could possibly have the whole truth about WC. There are too many variables.