William Cheung's ANTI-CLF Tactics

[hskwarrior]

I'm even talking mechanically, its not a good demo of how CLF would do something thats all. I'm not saying the CLF guy should look pretty. I'm saying CLF wouldn't do things the way he's displaying it.

[goju]

the way this guys fighting reminds me somewhat of the demo vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsFmWipioeg

what kung fu style is this thats hes trying to do?

[hskwarrior]

LMAO.....he COULD be CLF.....but some reason i doubt it. regardless...who's on the ground? LMAO

[Frost]

though granted that may be closer what he encountered with clf when he was young

im sure youve seen those roof top fights they caught on video it was just wild swinigng from all the styles pretty much

Whilst i agree those roof tops fights weren't impressive at lease the the clf guys were actually fighting in the SE asian full contact fights, as were some of the tai chi and Hsingi guys, the only wing chun guy who fought full contact we know of was WSL

[Josexx]

i heard there was some chunners who fought muy thai fighers. Was WSL one on the chunners? William?

[lance]

i think Emin already did that and proved how good he is?

Frost ,

Do you like Emin alot ? Right , emin did prove that he was good , by sucker punching William Cheung , and from there taking william to the ground . But you know what if Emin was that good then why did he have to wear protective gear on his body for ? To me if you going challenge somebody to a fight then do it fair and square , otherwise don ' t fight at all . You know why ? It only makes you look bad infront of your opponent , that 's why ,

Emin is another wing chun expert who learned WC under Leung Ting , but now rhese 2 people are no talking to eachother . To me , Emin has alot of ego in him . but you know what in this world today always going to get somebody better than the people who are better than you .

This whole problem began when Emin or Leung Ting had a seminar on WT , then there was a guy who wanted to challenge Leung Ting , and the guy who challenged Leung Ting was wearing a Traditional wing Chun T - shirt , and that person happened to be from William Cheungs' school .
Emin did the same thing to William Cheung . The only differences is that William
was being suckered punch , and sent to the ground . When William ' s student challenged leung ting , the person was just asked to leave the seminar .

This is old WC news , at that time William claimed to have the Traditional WC , while Leung Ting was modern WC , I think . The WC people happen to find a scroll written by IP Man saying give equal reconition to both men , I think I forget because it was a long , long time ago .


Lance

[hskwarrior]

I stand by this. William Cheung should have used a REAL Choy Lee Fut practitioner. The simulation of Choy Lee Fut was extremely weak and not representative of Choy Lee Fut.

[Frost]

Frost ,

Do you like Emin alot ? Right , emin did prove that he was good , by sucker punching William Cheung , and from there taking william to the ground . But you know what if Emin was that good then why did he have to wear protective gear on his body for ? To me if you going challenge somebody to a fight then do it fair and square , otherwise don ' t fight at all . You know why ? It only makes you look bad infront of your opponent , that 's why ,

Emin is another wing chun expert who learned WC under Leung Ting , but now rhese 2 people are no talking to eachother . To me , Emin has alot of ego in him . but you know what in this world today always going to get somebody better than the people who are better than you .

This whole problem began when Emin or Leung Ting had a seminar on WT , then there was a guy who wanted to challenge Leung Ting , and the guy who challenged Leung Ting was wearing a Traditional wing Chun T - shirt , and that person happened to be from William Cheungs' school .
Emin did the same thing to William Cheung . The only differences is that William
was being suckered punch , and sent to the ground . When William ' s student challenged leung ting , the person was just asked to leave the seminar .

This is old WC news , at that time William claimed to have the Traditional WC , while Leung Ting was modern WC , I think . The WC people happen to find a scroll written by IP Man saying give equal reconition to both men , I think I forget because it was a long , long time ago .


Lance

you need to work on your reading in context skills, my quote meant emin had already done this and proved how good cheung was

Emin challanged cheung because of the open challange cheung had out there, neither of them came out of that looking good

[Lucas]

the way this guys fighting reminds me somewhat of the demo vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsFmWipioeg

what kung fu style is this thats hes trying to do?

something souther, generally northern (if you chamber like in a form lol) chambers at waist. all the southern ive tasted chambers at upper ribs.

[lance]

you need to work on your reading in context skills, my quote meant emin had already done this and proved how good cheung was

Emin challanged cheung because of the open challange cheung had out there, neither of them came out of that looking good

Frost ,

Well if you had wrote your thread the way you described it , then I would nt have quote your thread the way I did , you need to work on your writing skills . I did read your thread , the way you wrote your thread was like saying that Emin won over Cheung .

And the story about the Cheung and Emin challege , I read stories that was opposite of what you ' re telling me in this thread .


Lance

[Frost]

Originally Posted by lance
hskwarrior ,

Are you a WC or CLF expert ? GM Cheung was just explaining how the fight between the CKF man and himself took place on that particular day . Just like if someone was throwing a straight vertical fist punch at your face , you would automatically react in a certain way against that particular punch right ?

The youtube clip you were talking about is based on an instructional DVD GM Cheung produced . And he used his own student to demo of what happened on that particular day . If he called on a CLF man then the situation would have turned into some thing else . But hskwarrior inorder to find out go and challenge GM Cheung to a fight . Because it ' s very easy to criticize somebody right ? But really challenging the man is a whole different story . If you beat him great , but if you lose then that ' s the truth right there ?

In other words instead of talking bad about the man go and challenge him .
That ' s the only way to find out if he ' s good or not .

Lance

i think Emin already did that and proved how good he is?

i was responding to this bit, the underlined bit

[Frost]

Frost ,

Well if you had wrote your thread the way you described it , then I would nt have quote your thread the way I did , you need to work on your writing skills . I did read your thread , the way you wrote your thread was like saying that Emin won over Cheung .

And the story about the Cheung and Emin challege , I read stories that was opposite of what you ' re telling me in this thread .


Lance

the letter for the open challange was posted on this thread earlier, here it is again

William Cheung's response to a letter from the
leading masters of Wing Chun. This version comes from Australasian fighting
Arts
Vol 10 nr 3.


************************************************** ******************


Firstly, I want to point out that the statement by the Ving Tsun Athletic
Association in their letter that the "the association was founded by the
late
grandmaster Yip Man and most of his senior student since 1976" is not true,
because Yip Man died in 1971. So he couldn't have founded the Ving Tsun
Athletic Association in 1976 as claimed.
I shall attempt to answer their letter point by point:
(1) I am the leader of the Traditional Wing Chun because I am the only
person
who inherited the whole Traditional system of Wing Chun. Furthermore, I also
know the modified version thoroughly, and know that it is inferior to the
Traditional system. I therefore proclaim myself the Grandmaster of the
Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu. If anyone does not think so, he can come and
see me and I will be more than too pleased to show him.
(2) I was the only person that Grandmaster Yip Man chose to carry on the
whole Traditional Wing Chun system. I am the best fighter in the Wing Chun
Style. This was acknowledged by the late Bruce Lee, and recognized by many
famous masters of other styles. I anyone needs proof, I would only be too
pleased to oblige.
(3) Nobody - I say nobody - was taught the traditional Wing Chun footwork
but
me. I Leung Ting and company knew it, they would be showing their students.
It
is like the case of the Bil Jee form. Nobody knew the proper form except me
and that is why they have been telling people that the Bil Jee form was too
dangerous even to show it; in order to cover up the fact that they don't
know
it. I was the first WEing Chun master to put Bil Jee in a book so that
everyone can learn the correct version.
(4)Dim Mak or disabling Pressure Point Techniques was passed on to me, along
with the whole Traditional system of Wing Chun. If you have read my article
on
the subject you might understand how it works. However, ther is no medicine
for
ignorance; Leung Ting and company deny the existence because they don't know
it. At least this time they admit their ignorance. My book on Dim Mak, or
Disabling Pressure Point Techniques, will be on the market soon. Keep your
eyes open. In china there is a Kung Fu monk who could stand upside down on
one
or two hands. Some people can break a half dozen inch boards with a punch.
Maybe there are people who can stand on a dozen eggs. I can stand on two
without breaking them. All these can be called tricks if you like, but the
fact is that I am still "the best Wing Chun Fighter". I dare anyone to prove
otherwise.
(5) It is irrelevant to argue whether Yip Man had made be take an oath
before
he taught me the complete Traditional Wing Chun System, because no-one else
was privileged to witness it. The fact is, that after 36 years of training
in
Wing Chun, I have the confidence to say that I am the most knowledgeable
master in the Wing Chun System and I am the best fighter, and I am willing
to
prove it to them at any time, anywhere. Unlike Leung Ting and company, as
shown in the photo, you only have to take one look at them to realize that
none of them look that part of martial artists. I could safely say that none
of them have done any hard training in recent years. They certainly don't
look
very impressive!
In the 50's I was a kid . . . so was Bruce Lee . . . full of enthusiasm and
energy. We learned Wing Chun together and we were determined to make a name
for Wing Chun and ourselves. And we did. In the 50's Leung Ting was still
"in
his diapers". He didn't learn Wing Chun until the 1960's from Leung
Chun,(Yip
Man's student) of his own admission. He is one generation behind Bruce and
me.
However, according to the article published in "Secrets of Kung Fu" Vol 2
1977, hundred of Kung Fu masters in Hong Kong - including Leung Chun, Yip
Shun, Tsui Sheng tin, and Wong Shun Leung - denounced Leung Ting in very
strong terms (I have enclosed copies) Leung Shun was reportedly saying that
Leung Ting wasn't learning from him, but from his student Jah Bak. This
makes
Leung Ting two generation behind Bruce Lee and I.
And Leung Ting's claim that he was Yip Man's closed door student is on what
grounds? In the 60's, Yip Man was a heavy drug user, and did not enjoy very
good health. There was no way that Yip Man could have taught anyone in that
state of health. Even his own sons, Yip Chun and Yip Ching, who came to Hong
Kong in the 1960's, had to be content to train with Yip Man's senior
students.
Wing Chun is a system which was developed for one to be able to master in
three to four years. Grandmaster Yip Man, from age of twelve to sixteen,
learned four years part time the modified version of Wing Chun with Chan Wah
Shun and, from age 17, he learned 2 years traditional Wing Chun from Leung
Buk
(Leung Jung's son) in Hong Kong. Wong Shun Leung only learned modified Wing
Chun for three years part time and he began teaching in early 1955. Loh Liu
probably started teaching after only 2 years part time training in the
modified version.
I studied Wing Chun for 4 and one half years part time in the modified
version, and then 2 and one half years full time in the traditional version,
when I was living with Yip Man. I learned the modified version as well as
the
traditional version. After I completed my learning, I have continued to
practice for a further 28 years, and I still practice daily.
From these factors you can see that I am the most qualified practitioner in
both modified and traditional versions of Wing Chun Kung Fu. I proclaim
myself
the most knowledgeable master and the best fighter in the whole Wing Chun
style.
I would like to close off with a very famous Chinese proverb : "Practicing
Kung Fu is like paddling upstream - if you don't go forward, you must go
backward, and seldom you stay in the same spot". It is no surprise to find
the
whole group in the printed photo appear to have gone so far backward that I
would be ashamed to be associated with them.

William Cheung
Grandmaster
__________________
Phillip Redmond
WCKwoon

[lance]

Originally Posted by lance
hskwarrior ,

Are you a WC or CLF expert ? GM Cheung was just explaining how the fight between the CKF man and himself took place on that particular day . Just like if someone was throwing a straight vertical fist punch at your face , you would automatically react in a certain way against that particular punch right ?

The youtube clip you were talking about is based on an instructional DVD GM Cheung produced . And he used his own student to demo of what happened on that particular day . If he called on a CLF man then the situation would have turned into some thing else . But hskwarrior inorder to find out go and challenge GM Cheung to a fight . Because it ' s very easy to criticize somebody right ? But really challenging the man is a whole different story . If you beat him great , but if you lose then that ' s the truth right there ?

In other words instead of talking bad about the man go and challenge him .
That ' s the only way to find out if he ' s good or not .

Lance

i think Emin already did that and proved how good he is?

i was responding to this bit, the underlined bit

Frost ,

Our argument or debate is ' nt going anywher so I ' ll I tell you what , if you insist that you were talking good about Cheung and not talking bad about Cheung . then excuse me on that part , I admit I misunderstood you .

Okay , I really don ' t remember what year it was but it was in the Inside Kung Fu Magazine , there was alot of articles on it . I ' m from Hawaii , and I happen to read the articles on the Emin Vs Cheung story , and that ' s where I got my sources from okay . At that time James Demile claimed in his book that he learned the modified version of wing chun from Bruce Lee , and they put Emin on the side , and began talking about Cheung having the traditional wing chun form and Leung Ting the modified version of the wing chun version , and this story got me all confused . And what I told you in my thread about Emin sucker punching cheung at his own WC seminar . And one of Cheung ' s students' did the same to Leung Ting at his own VT seminar . I read in the article in the Inside kung fu magazine , so that ' s why I mentioned it in my thread .

I have 2 friends who are WC sifus themseves they learned from a guy chinese guy in Hawaii , because in Hawaii , WC is very popular . And frost , I ' ve read your statement on cheung and yes , Ip Man died 1 year before bruce died , and someone wrote an article that Ip Man before he died gave equal leadership to William Cheung and Leung Ting , but you can verified that to me . Because it seems that you know alot about these WC or VT people .
Emin as you already know has a series of instructional DVDs in the market today .
But if I ' m not mistaken it ' s on the youtube , I think I saw it one time .

In kung fu regardless of styles or sytems , we may or may not get something good out of arguing or debating . so we just have to forget about our differences .
In our situation , you insist on it so okay , I ' ll take your word for it , but blame the Inside kung fu magazine for misinforming people . Because , I read in the article that Emin had padding to protect his body area , that 's what Cheung found out well this is what I read .


Lance

[B-Rad]

Frost ,

Our argument or debate is ' nt going anywher so I ' ll I tell you what , if you insist that you were talking good about Cheung and not talking bad about Cheung . then excuse me on that part , I admit I misunderstood you .

Okay , I really don ' t remember what year it was but it was in the Inside Kung Fu Magazine , there was alot of articles on it . I ' m from Hawaii , and I happen to read the articles on the Emin Vs Cheung story , and that ' s where I got my sources from okay . At that time James Demile claimed in his book that he learned the modified version of wing chun from Bruce Lee , and they put Emin on the side , and began talking about Cheung having the traditional wing chun form and Leung Ting the modified version of the wing chun version , and this story got me all confused . And what I told you in my thread about Emin sucker punching cheung at his own WC seminar . And one of Cheung ' s students' did the same to Leung Ting at his own VT seminar . I read in the article in the Inside kung fu magazine , so that ' s why I mentioned it in my thread .

I have 2 friends who are WC sifus themseves they learned from a guy chinese guy in Hawaii , because in Hawaii , WC is very popular . And frost , I ' ve read your statement on cheung and yes , Ip Man died 1 year before bruce died , and someone wrote an article that Ip Man before he died gave equal leadership to William Cheung and Leung Ting , but you can verified that to me . Because it seems that you know alot about these WC or VT people .
Emin as you already know has a series of instructional DVDs in the market today .
But if I ' m not mistaken it ' s on the youtube , I think I saw it one time .

In kung fu regardless of styles or sytems , we may or may not get something good out of arguing or debating . so we just have to forget about our differences .
In our situation , you insist on it so okay , I ' ll take your word for it , but blame the Inside kung fu magazine for misinforming people . Because , I read in the article that Emin had padding to protect his body area , that 's what Cheung found out well this is what I read .


Lance

The William Cheung vs. Emin Boztepe fight is on youtube to watch, so there's probably not much point arguing over it too much. I'm not even sure WC landed a punch, but he basically got ambushed and taken to the ground pretty quickly. I don't think WC got a punch off, so I don't really see padding making a difference. William Cheung clearly wasn't ready for a fight... not sure if it would have made a difference, but it's a good lesson about saying you will prove your fighting skill to anyone anywhere :-P

[Frost]

Frost ,

Our argument or debate is ' nt going anywher so I ' ll I tell you what , if you insist that you were talking good about Cheung and not talking bad about Cheung . then excuse me on that part , I admit I misunderstood you .

Okay , I really don ' t remember what year it was but it was in the Inside Kung Fu Magazine , there was alot of articles on it . I ' m from Hawaii , and I happen to read the articles on the Emin Vs Cheung story , and that ' s where I got my sources from okay . At that time James Demile claimed in his book that he learned the modified version of wing chun from Bruce Lee , and they put Emin on the side , and began talking about Cheung having the traditional wing chun form and Leung Ting the modified version of the wing chun version , and this story got me all confused . And what I told you in my thread about Emin sucker punching cheung at his own WC seminar . And one of Cheung ' s students' did the same to Leung Ting at his own VT seminar . I read in the article in the Inside kung fu magazine , so that ' s why I mentioned it in my thread .

I have 2 friends who are WC sifus themseves they learned from a guy chinese guy in Hawaii , because in Hawaii , WC is very popular . And frost , I ' ve read your statement on cheung and yes , Ip Man died 1 year before bruce died , and someone wrote an article that Ip Man before he died gave equal leadership to William Cheung and Leung Ting , but you can verified that to me . Because it seems that you know alot about these WC or VT people .
Emin as you already know has a series of instructional DVDs in the market today .
But if I ' m not mistaken it ' s on the youtube , I think I saw it one time .

In kung fu regardless of styles or sytems , we may or may not get something good out of arguing or debating . so we just have to forget about our differences .
In our situation , you insist on it so okay , I ' ll take your word for it , but blame the Inside kung fu magazine for misinforming people . Because , I read in the article that Emin had padding to protect his body area , that 's what Cheung found out well this is what I read .


Lance

lol its not my statement its what the wing chun elders sent to cheung and his letter of response, in his letter he said challange me if you think you can beat me, he called for it and got it, its that simple