Forum meeting in SYD

[anerlich]

I had the privilege and good fortune to meet up with KFOWC forum member duende/Alex in Sydney on Sunday March 20. He was in town working as part of a show at the Opera House.

We had a cup of coffee and a long chat about our personal, professional, and Wing Chun histories and experiences at Circular Quay on a rare rainy Sydney day. Alex does HFY, I do TWC. I learned a lot I didn't know before about San Francisco area WC and HFY, and I did my best to explain the small part that I know of the players, relationships and absurdities that are WC in Sydney and Australia, a checkered and twisted tale if ever there was one.

After the coffee, we found a sheltered spot without too much foot traffic under the overhead railway lines. I performed my Sil Lim Tao and did my best to explain the rationale behind Rick Spain's method and some of the history that brought it to this point. In all honesty, most of my recent training has been Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and my execution was not as technically polished as it might have been a year or two ago. Still, I think I did the form and my instructor reasonably proud.

Alex then returned the favour, and performed his intricate and fascinating version of HFY's advanced version of SLT. There's a lot of stuff in there! I would by lying to say I took in any more than an impression, but that impression was good. There are some similarities, but plenty of differences, and I mean that in a most positive way. I really liked a couple of wrinkles on parts of the form that resembled my own, but with different emphases or additional movements included.

Alex also, very briefly, explained and demonstrated HFY's take on Chi Sao, Kiu Sau, and Chi Kiu. While I am not so arrogant as to believe I could come within a light year of explaining their substance and purposes without putting my foot deep enough into my mouth to tickle my duodenum with my toes, I was definitely convinced of the validity of the different practices, that they ARE different in both practice and intent, and that they teach you to make use of or break your or your partner's structure in different ways. He also talked even more briefly about HFY's Heaven, Earth, and Human, and Time, Space, and Energy. However, this was for me a fascinating conversation with several things going on at once and I only scratched molecule-thin the surface of these deep subjects.

HFY is the real deal. I think the discontent with it of earlier times from some was a result of aggressive marketing by individuals who were never committed students or practitioners of the system, and an incidental ego battle between amateur historians. To suggest that TWC is merely a rebranded HFY or vice versa does justice to neither. We discussed the possibility of some relationship or shared history of the two systems briefly, but I think we both remain agnostics on the subject, despite our access to various internet pundits.

We also discussed the dreaded "structure", the subject that has generated enough hot air on this forum to raise, by greenhouse effect, the surface temperature of several Earth-sized planets beyond that of Venus. Suffice to say I know "structure" when I feel it, and I could feel that Alex certainly had it when we tried it out. I think we both remain mystified as to what the big deal is about this with certain forum members.

To the probable disappointment and frustration of and derision from a small number of forum members, and one particular recent ex-member: no, we did not get in a ring and fight under MMA rules.

I felt like the proverbial kid in the candy store. No competition, no ego, just two guys from different countries having fun sharing a common interest.

We both had afternoon appointments, and so I left Alex at the stage door of the Opera House and went about the rest of my day's affairs.

My investment of a few hours to meet Alex was well and truly repaid with interest, and I would encourage others to do the same should similar opportunities present themselves.

[JPinAZ]

This is a great post. Alex is a cool guy and is very open and clear when sharing his knowledge of HFY. I'm glad you both had a positive and productive meeting and I applaud your honesty!

Some people here might be bummed to hear there was no challenge death match to end the visit, but they'll get over it I'm sure
haha

[Wayfaring]

Awesome. Glad you guys got to meet up.

[CFT]

Andrew, great write up.

It just goes to show what we can learn if we have an open mind and no ego.
I think your analysis of the "historical controversies" is spot on.

[LoneTiger108]

I only wish that there were more reports like this on here!

Thanks for sharing your exchange

[GlennR]

Great post Andrew (though a couple of rough heads ) and its a worthwhile thing to do on many levels
Years ago i made a point of visiting local WC schools and in fact we had a couple of "friendship seminars"( to borrow a phrase) between our school , Bennys WSL School and his local TST School. Happened twice in fact and was a blast.

What it did highlight was the legitimacy of the 3 different styles, whilst acknowledging differences, and was just simply a great time had by all.

Funny enough, John (KuloWC) and myself are catching up soon so ill be sure to drop a line how that went

Oh, one last thing. Great to see HFY getting a good wrap from someone with an objective point of view

Best post in years IMHHHHO

Regards

GlennR

[duende]

Hey Guys,

Sorry for the somewhat late response, but I've been in transit here in Australia.

And I must say, I'm just barely scratching the surface of what is a wonderful country filled with beautiful landscapes, people, and culture.

And FYI... Sydney is HUGE! Waaay bigger than San Francisco. So big thanks to Andrew for taking the time to make his way to where I was staying because otherwise.. it might have all been a wash.


What can I say, I've long been a fan of Andrew's whit and wisdom here on KFO for many years now. So I had to hunt him down.... Call me an internet stalker if you will, but I knew the experience would be worth it.

As for the meeting...

Well it was like meeting up with an old friend. It's an amazing thing to have interacted with someone online for close to 10 years, and then finally meet them.

The man was not only kind enough to share many insights from his 40 years of studying Martial Arts, but also give me some pointers on Jiu Jitsu schools.

If time had allowed, I would have liked to have hit the mat and learned what I could from him. The guys a brown belt jiu jitsu instructor... need I say more.


As Andrew mentioned, we shared SLT forms and concepts from both TWC and HFY. And as neither of us cares for petty WC politics, we were able to create a solid bridge and effectively communicate our KF experiences.

Yeah.. imagine that!

What was most interesting, from what Andrew showed me of the TWC he learned here in Australia, was their advanced SLT form and how Rick Spain has incorporated a gripping footwork and what I would call a coiling body positioning into it. Super smart!

Over-all what was so cool about what Andrew demonstrated was how "un-TWC" everything was.

And before anyone goes off on a tangent here thinking I'm putting down TWC, please let me explain.

All too often, we constantly hear about the differences between TWC and other WC systems. Or moreover, lately it seems we argue about the differences between one WSL line and another WSL line.

From high bong sau's, to low tan sau's, footwork stances to blind side concept... etc. etc... We argue over what technique first belonged to who.... what practice was first started by whom...



In truth, all that stuff is not so important. Not that they don't work or are invalid or anything like that.

But because if you boil down to it.... all those differences we constantly hear about in political WC arguments over and over again.... are in fact arguments essentially over just a bunch of differences in techniques.


What Andrew demonstrated was simply core WC concepts being expressed. Not just techniques, and not just the same old emphasizing of differences / empty comparison test....

It may have been an example of a TWC branch off the WC tree, but more importantly... it was example of how true WC concepts transcend across lineages, and technical expressions.



And it was cool to find myself across the planet.. in the southern hemisphere for god's sake. And hang out with a WC bro!

Thanks Andrew!

[wingchunIan]

Fantastic post - great to see that politics doesn't rear its ugly head all the time. love it.

[bennyvt]

good to here, its amazing what you can pick up with an open mind.

[Eric_H]

Nice one!

I'd say almost everyone I've met offline has been reasonably decent, there were a few friendship seminars a couple years back here in AZ that I really enjoyed. I guess that for some reason kung fu + keyboard = ridiculous.

[Runlikehell]

Just saw this post now (sorry for dragging it back up).
It's great to see that such an open exchange and discussion took place. I wish there were more posts like this on here. On a related note, Sydney has a wealth of different WC schools/lineages. If they (as a whole) could learn from this, then each school could benefit from learning and sharing with another. That will probably never happen (at least on a large scale).

Excellent post, and I hope Alex enjoyed the rest of his time here.

[Hendrik]

Excellent post!

It is always great to know one in person at meeting. You both must be enjoy extremely!

Best Regards

[anerlich]

That will probably never happen (at least on a large scale).

Yeah, more's the pity. I actually train BJJ with one of the late Jim Fung's top guys. He's a purple belt and a pretty good one. Thing is, we never discuss Wing Chun.

[Runlikehell]

Yeah, more's the pity. I actually train BJJ with one of the late Jim Fung's top guys. He's a purple belt and a pretty good one. Thing is, we never discuss Wing Chun.

Yeah? Do you know if he's he still active in the IWCA? I've heard from a few people that they held strong opinions in regards to people cross training. That may have changed though.

[anerlich]

Yeah? Do you know if he's he still active in the IWCA? I've heard from a few people that they held strong opinions in regards to people cross training. That may have changed though.

He's one of the seven chief instructors that run the IWCA, appointed after Sifu Fung passed away. So I guess things must have changed, but I also guess to some degree as a top dog he can do what he wants.

To go with the thrust of the thread, I think most of us would or would have got into more trouble going to another WC instuctor than learning a completely different style. Then again a lot of guys have had more than one WC instructor over time. Then yet again, there's a lot of brand loyalty and protection in BJJ, with "creontes" etc.

My own instructor is a Kyokushin black belt and BJJ brown belt so X training is pretty normal and the "my WC is the only WC, everyone else is rubbish" thing is pretty irrelevant these days for that reason.

Some of our guys have been to BJ Penn's school in Hawaii a few times, and BJ himself trained at our gym before the last UFC in Oz. Was under strict lockdown though, only a lucky couple of guys got to watch one session.