Time to make traditionalists and NHB fighters alike, ****ed off!

[SevenStar]

"I think that it would be hard to argue, however, that "traditional" (I'm starting to hate that word ) styles do in fact train like NHB artists. If that was the case, the NHB "style" of fighting would not be a new phenomenum."

In the sense he's referring to, it is somewhat of a new phenomenon. Yes Abel, you spar. That's fine and dandy. Not all schools participate in realistic sparring, I have first hand experience with that. Not all styles do bagwork, grappling, etc. You have to realize that while back in the day all traditional styles may have trained full contact, super intensity, not all schools nowadays do. NHB schools train that way because they have to. You can't compete at that level without the intense training. The same goes for muay thai, boxing, san shou etc. Many of the traditional schools we refer to may compete in tourneys, but of course do not compete at the level of even an amateur thai fighter. Consequently, this type of training is becoming more popularized with the spread of NHB. Look at the schools in your area. Are they starting to teach grappling, kickboxing, etc? the schools here are. They have grapplers, kickboxers, etc. teach additional classes so that students interested can also train in these styles. these styles train to fight for extended periods of time becuase it is very realistic that ( a boxing match, for example) may go 12 rounds. traditional stylists do not have that concern. Their concern is ending a fight a quickly as possible, meaning that it's not necessary to spar 8 - 12 rounds, or lift weights, do roadwork, etc.

-ShortySeven©
Step right up and get it -- whoever wants [defeat]

Come not between the dragon and his wrath...

[Ryu]

Braden,
That may be true. But did most martial arts schools spar this way or did they keep to a certain form? Did they kick, punch and elbow, clinch with a throw and follow to the ground?

From the schools I saw, that was not the curriculum in sparring. Usually they'd stay to there one "range" (forgive me) and not bother with anything else.

Ryu



judo legend, Masahiko Kimura


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[SevenStar]

the confusion came when abel said this:

"NHB, a streetfight? Not quite. Not taking away from the fighters. BUT. In a street fight you have about 15 seconds to get the heck out of the way of the flying beer bottles and the "chick-chick" of somebodies 9mm. Nobody fights fair on the street. Nobody waits for the opening bell. Nobody tells their friends "hey, don't jump in if I'm in trouble". Nobody gets to tap out. Nobody puts their weapons aside with the barkeep. Nobody goes away without the last hit. And if you do tap him out, he isn't going to just go home. He will return with more force, more friends, or both. One on one on the street is very rare. Troublemakers always have a group. I've seen big guys melt and totally punk out at the first sign of a confrontation. If anyone here is going to talk about a street fight then please, talk from the scene not from the dream."

-ShortySeven©
Step right up and get it -- whoever wants [defeat]

Come not between the dragon and his wrath...

[SifuAbel]

There is no confusion. The above is the truth. Disprove it. go ahead.

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@yahoo.com

[SifuAbel]

The above is the comparison of ferocity. Have you actually been in a streetfight in your entire life?

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@yahoo.com

[Ryu]

SifuAbel, Mainstream...thank you. haha. ;)


Well I am sorry you feel that way about my post, but you must admit that your opinion is also subjective since there are many other posters here who were not offended.
But I will make one last apology if you (or anyone else for that matter) finds this post too general. It's hard not to be general at times in the martial arts world :(
I did my best not to be.

Ryu



judo legend, Masahiko Kimura


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Ryu]

SifuAbel,

"have you ever been in a streetfight your entire life?"

...were you asking me? :o
Yes, plenty.

Ryu



judo legend, Masahiko Kimura


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[SevenStar]

TO HIM. the bottom line and the whole point of his post is how HE feels about HIS training. When this thread is long gone, he will still feel the same way. In HIS eyes, NHB style training mixed with some traditional training is the way to go. Consequently, his post can't be overly misleading and general. You say that some schools are family oriented. That's your oppinion based on your experience. Someone else may say that what you said is wrong because the area they are in and the MA schools THEY have dealt with are all family oriented. Does that make your perception wrong? Not at all. Such posts are all based on personal experience.

-ShortySeven©
Step right up and get it -- whoever wants [defeat]

Come not between the dragon and his wrath...

[SifuAbel]

"You have offende my famiwee and you have offende the shaaaaaowin tempo."

I'm not "offended" by this. This is a discussion. That's why they call it a "forum".

Its dangerous to think you are immortal.
sifuabel@yahoo.com

[Ryu]

Glad to hear it.

Well guys, it's 1:30 am here and I have college courses tomorrow, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to bow out. This has been one of my most controversial posts :o

But the discussion was definitely a good one.
SevenStar, Braden, SifuAbel, thanks for all your input and opinions. :)

Goodnight.
(better get outta here before the tomatos start coming in from Abel ;) haha JK, Abel)

Ryu



judo legend, Masahiko Kimura


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[SevenStar]

Nah, he was talking to me, and the answer is yes, plenty, from one on one to multiple attackers. (I've even had someone try to chase me down on a BMX! LOL his shoe was untied, and when I sidestepped and yanked him off of it, his shoelace got twisted up in the pedals so he couldn't run when he tried)

And I agree with your post. However, you made it seem like someone said that NHB is the same as a streetfight, and that was never said. the training can help immensely - full contact, grappling, etc. as these play a significant role in a fight. What about that don't you get? Do you not agree that you need to know how to grapple? If not, I hope you never get taken down on the street. Do you not agree that full contact fighting is helpful on the street? If you agree that these are helpful, then we see eye to eye on that.

-ShortySeven©
Step right up and get it -- whoever wants [defeat]

Come not between the dragon and his wrath...

[Badger]

Well the way I see it is:

Traditional arts(Karate,Kungfu,Jiujitsu) were originally trained NHB.Mcdojos(schools that give away belts,sorry training) are far from being traditional.
Not all storefront schools are Mcdojos,even BJJ/NHB/MMA are taught somewhere and instuctors do have to be paid for their time(and rent,electricity,etc.)

Badger

[MaFuYee]

WHAAAAATT?!?!?! - you don't like the scantily clad ring girls?!?! :o

- The learning curve is now a spin cycle.

[Ralek]

SifuAbel. You talked about what fights are like on the street. Ok. That's true. The fights will be brutal.

What is going to better prepare you for these brutal fights? Doing forms and throwing techniques into the air? Or fighting and learning how to fight in NHB?

There are multiple opponents. Do you think learning kung fu stances and throwing kung fu claws into the air is going to help with this situation?

Will the dead drills of one step sparring in kung fu make you ready to dodge the flying beer bottle?

Kung fu does not give you fighting skills. It also does not prepare you for the brutality and unpredictability of the street.

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.

[Ralek]

SifuAbel. You said that people will come after you for revenge with friends? Let's say they do. Do you use special techniques in kung fu that leave your defeated opponent with a good attitude? What moves do you do in kung fu that will make people not try and get revenge with friends?

You need to protect yourself in the moment. If you have to break their arm then you break it. Of course you don't let them tap out if it's a serious situation. You break their arm or put them out with a choke.

Brazilian jiujitsu is superior.