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Thread: NJ Governor Chris Christie tells it like it is

  1. #1

    NJ Governor Chris Christie tells it like it is

    On the March 22nd radio show 'Ask the Governor', Gov Chrisite fielded a question from Penny in Blackwood. The transcript is below:

    PENNY: "I would like to know why you want to take at least 13% out of state employees' pay for health care. Between what my husband and I make, you're talking about $600 a month out of our money which is gonna cut into our food and our other bills. How do you expect us to live, governor?"

    CHRISTIE: How I expect you to live, Penny, is you're gonna have to pick a different health plan that's not nearly as rich as the one you're getting now. That's how.

    PENNY: Either that or you're force us to not have any health care.

    CHRISTIE: No, I'm not gonna force you to not have any health care. I don't think that means forcing you to go without health care. But what it means is we can no longer afford to pay 90 plus percent of the cost of your health care. Public workers are getting their health insurance paid for out of your property taxes, and state workers are getting their health insurance paid for out of your income taxes. If I'm $67 billion in debt and you don't want me to take any more money out of your paycheck, how am I supposed to pay for it? Am I supposed to just raise taxes? Because if I raise taxes you're gonna pay more taxes, and if your property taxes go up, you're going to pay more taxes. I mean the money's gotta come from somewhere. We can't print it.

    PENNY: "I realize that, but it seems like it's always coming from the poor and not the rich to make up for these shortfalls."

    CHRISTIE: "Penny, the top 1% of taxpayers in this state pay 41% of the total income tax. The top 1% pay 41% of the income tax. So to say that the rich don't pay is just not true. How much do you want them to pay? There comes a point where you cannot have everything that you want. And as much as I would like to be able to say to you, "You know what, Penny, you're right, I don't want you to have to pay another nickel for your health insurance," I can't pay for it, and we already have the highest taxes in America. I gotta tell you the truth, your neighbor who works in the private sector pays a heck of a lot more for his or her health insurance than you do. And on the top of it they're paying the taxes to pay for your health insurance. And so I've got a problem to fix here. We're broke and I gotta fix this problem."

    Source: (Includes audio and video)
    http://millenniumradionj.com/AskTheG...ov-WKXWFM.html

  2. #2
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    The rich should pay a flat tax of 25% across the board on all their taxable holdings.

    I am not buying his line about 1% paying 41% of the taxes and I am pretty sure he can't table proof of that. He won't produce a record that accounts in that way and anyone who says the rich pay the most is delusional.

    the working class has carried the taxes of the nation forever.
    the rich will always be rich, but painting them as the source of tax funding is ridiculous.

    Not to mention, if that were true, it is still unbalance and unfair.

    And who were the idiots that decided 90% of health care for public employees would be covered gratis by taxes? Is that the employees fault or slack ass governance?

    I think this dude is polishing a turd here in a desperate attempt to put blame on those who do not deserve it and who do deserve to be told the truth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I am not buying his line about 1% paying 41% of the taxes and I am pretty sure he can't table proof of that. He won't produce a record that accounts in that way and anyone who says the rich pay the most is delusional..
    Almost half of Americans pay no federal taxes at all, which is bull****, because taxes pay for programs that benefit everyone.

    Households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.

    I'm sure state taxes work out about the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I am not buying his line about 1% paying 41% of the taxes and I am pretty sure he can't table proof of that. He won't produce a record that accounts in that way and anyone who says the rich pay the most is delusional.
    LMFAO at you. Anytime anyone disagrees with you they are wrong, despite their background/job/experience. The man is the friggin Governor, yet some Canadian knows better. Just like how you argue with Drake over US military facts. You're never wrong I guess.

    How about you show proof the man is lying? That would buttress your argument in one fail swoop. But I'm sure you wont. You'll just keep attacking facts while producing no links/sources to refute them.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    the working class has carried the taxes of the nation forever.
    the rich will always be rich, but painting them as the source of tax funding is ridiculous.
    I agree that the middle class is overtaxed, but to say the rich are not paying well over their fair share is incorrect. The top 1% pay 39% of all Federal taxes, and the top 25% pay 86% of all Federal taxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    And who were the idiots that decided 90% of health care for public employees would be covered gratis by taxes? Is that the employees fault or slack ass governance?
    New Jersey is a heavily Democratic State. I would blame the past Governors, Legislatures, and the unions. Of course the voters didn't help matters either, until they elected Mr Christie.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I think this dude is polishing a turd here in a desperate attempt to put blame on those who do not deserve it and who do deserve to be told the truth.
    So tell us the truth then. Post links to show he is "polishing a turd".

    What the man is doing is trying to save the State from bankruptcy. And so far New Jersey is alot better off after his 2 years as Governor than they were before he was elected. And he did it without printing money and by cutting spending.

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Almost half of Americans pay no federal taxes at all, which is bull****, because taxes pay for programs that benefit everyone.

    Households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.

    I'm sure state taxes work out about the same.
    You are correct.

    Even scarier to consider is that those ~50% are voters too. And their voices count as much as yours, yet you pay taxes.

  5. #5
    That discussion with Governor Christie only touches on income taxes, which is a part of the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    Well, this is interesting:

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/22340.html

    In the rush to file their federal income tax forms for tax year 2006, Americans may not look closely enough at their W-2s and may not realize the true economic incidence of payroll taxes; they may not realize that they probably paid more in federal payroll taxes than in federal income taxes last year. Most economists agree that virtually all of the payroll tax burden is borne by workers, even that portion that is legally paid by the employer. And so when we count that as a tax on the worker, we begin to realize that this 15.3 percent tax rate can be higher than the income tax rate that these individuals are paying; most of them lie below the Social Security cap ($97,500) and fall in the 10 and 15 percent taxable income brackets (with possibly some income being taxed at the 25 percent rate). Only for high-income earners or those who earn most of their income in non-wage form will their income tax burden exceed their payroll tax burden.

    The Tax Foundation recently released a Fiscal Fact looking at how different types of taxes weigh differently on different income groups. Among the study's highlights (from 2004 data):

    For households in the bottom 20 percent of the income scale, the average payroll tax burden per household for tax year 2004 was $917, while the average federal income tax burden per household (excluding refundable portion of EITC) was $171.

    For the middle income group, the average payroll taxes paid per household was nearly double the average federal income tax.

    For the bottom 40 percent of households, property taxes, payroll taxes, and state/local general sales taxes was each a larger hit on households than the federal individual income tax.

    The federal individual income tax is much more progressive than state/local income taxes. As a quick illustration, for every dollar in federal individual income taxes paid by the middle income group, the top quintile paid $7.86 in federal individual income taxes. At the state/local individual income tax level, that number was $5.36.

    Individual income taxes at both the federal and state/local level drive the bulk of the progressivity in the entire tax system. As a quick illustration, for every dollar of total taxes paid by the middle income group in 2004 at all levels of government, the top quintile paid $3.87 in taxes. However, excluding all individual income taxes, that number drops to around $2.82.

    The bottom quintile pays more in taxes on tobacco and alcohol (at all levels) than in federal individual income taxes, even after excluding the refundable portion of EITC.

    For more on how different types of households are hit harder by different types of taxes, check out the full working paper on which these numbers are based.

    http://www.urban.org/publications/1001065.html

    Two-Thirds of Tax Units Pay More Payroll Tax Than Income Tax

    April 15 is synonymous with taxes in the United States, but most Americans actually pay more payroll taxes than federal income taxes. In 2006 workers and employers each paid 6.2 percent Social Security tax on the first $94,200 of earnings and 1.45 percent Medicare tax on all wages. While the statutory obligation to pay payroll taxes is split evenly between workers and employers, most economists believe that the employer tax usually translates into lower wages, so workers bear the full burden of the tax. Thus, the total payroll tax rate equals 15.3 percent of earnings for most workers.

    About two-thirds of taxpayers owed more payroll taxes (including the employer portion) than individual income taxes in 2006. Many households (including most retirees) do not have any wage income and thus pay no payroll tax. Among households with wage earners, 86 percent have higher payroll taxes than income taxes, including almost all of those with incomes less than $40,000 and 94 percent of those with incomes less than $100,000. If only the employee portion of payroll taxes is considered, 44 percent of taxpayers and 56 percent of wage earners pay more payroll tax than income tax, including nearly 80 percent of earners with incomes less than $50,000.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    As much as I tried to stay away...

    Your article says nothing about payroll taxes, which make up the majority of the middle class tax burden. It's also dated October 13, 2008

    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...&postcount=794

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65
    I'm referring to income taxes. They are BY FAR the largest percentage of taxes the middle class pays.
    Actually, no (page 19, Chart 5)....

    http://www.kc.frb.org/PUBLICAT/ECONR.../4q06davig.pdf
    From my link: "Since payroll taxes are paid only up to a certain amount of income, payroll taxes comprise a larger share of the tax liability for low- and middle-income households versus high-income households. Mitrusi and Poterba (2000) estimated that payroll taxes were higher than federal income taxes for 44 percent of all U.S. households in 1979, and that percentage increased to 67 percent in 1999."
    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    Once again you are stating that 40% of Americans pay no income tax. Let's stipulate that. However, I've already shown that:

    "Since payroll taxes are paid only up to a certain amount of income, payroll taxes comprise a larger share of the tax liability for low- and middle-income households versus high-income households. Mitrusi and Poterba (2000) estimated that payroll taxes were higher than federal income taxes for 44 percent of all U.S. households in 1979, and that percentage increased to 67 percent in 1999."

    So, the implication that these people do not pay into the system is suspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    I'm talking about income tax, which is the biggest tax those who pay it pay.
    Ah...but for low to middle income Americans the payroll tax is "the biggest tax those who pay it pay."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/ny...0christie.html

    New Jersey’s public-sector unions routinely pressure the State Legislature to give them what they fail to win in contract talks. Most government workers pay nothing for health insurance. Concessions by school employees would have prevented any cuts in school programs last year.

    Statements like those are at the core of Gov. Chris Christie’s campaign to cut state spending by getting tougher on unions. They are not, however, accurate.
    1bad65, you make me laugh. Dare I say it? You seem to be suffering from ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome).

    "I didn't vote for him but he's my president, and I hope he does a good job." - John Wayne

    Clearly you want President Obama to fail, or else you wouldn't bring up every little thing you can to try and discredit him and his Administration. You seems to be actively hoping for failure.

    Perhaps you can take a lesson from The Duke.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ-Blue View Post
    Even scarier to consider is that those ~50% are voters too. And their voices count as much as yours, yet you pay taxes.
    And so do most of those ~50%. They just pay it in the form of payroll taxes, sales tax, property taxes, etc...
    1bad65, you make me laugh. Dare I say it? You seem to be suffering from ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome).

    "I didn't vote for him but he's my president, and I hope he does a good job." - John Wayne

    Clearly you want President Obama to fail, or else you wouldn't bring up every little thing you can to try and discredit him and his Administration. You seems to be actively hoping for failure.

    Perhaps you can take a lesson from The Duke.

  7. #7
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    i would gladly give up my right to vote if i didnt have to pay any taxes lol
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    And so do most of those ~50%. They just pay it in the form of payroll taxes, sales tax, property taxes, etc...
    I was talking about Federal income taxes. Based on the figure he used, I assume MK was too (but I can't put words in his mouth). Considering those are 10%-35% of your total yearly earnings, no one should be getting a free pass on those.

    Keep in mind too, it's always conservatives who talk about instituting the 'Fair Tax', which would tax everyone at the same percentage, so if you make 10x what I do, you'll pay 10x the taxes I do.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Reality_Check View Post
    New Jersey’s public-sector unions routinely pressure the State Legislature to give them what they fail to win in contract talks. Most government workers pay nothing for health insurance. Concessions by school employees would have prevented any cuts in school programs last year.

    Statements like those are at the core of Gov. Chris Christie’s campaign to cut state spending by getting tougher on unions. They are not, however, accurate.
    He is not saying that. My transcript (and the video/audio) clearly show he said they only pay 10% of their healthcare costs, not 0% as you allege he says.

    So don't put words in the man's mouth and then say he isn't accurate.

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    Isn't it a bit weird to punish people for being successful?
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    What is fedral tax in the US by the way ?
    Here federal tax is income tax and everyone pays it (automatically deducted from wages)
    The there is federal SALES tax ( GST) and everyone pays that too.
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    here our federal tax is about one left nut, an ear and your right foot.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    Isn't it a bit weird to punish people for being successful?
    but thats my american dream...
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    here our federal tax is about one left nut, an ear and your right foot.
    Who pays it? is it deducted from your pay check?
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Who pays it? is it deducted from your pay check?
    It's deducted automatically, but when you file taxes in April, many people get credits and deductions that are worth more than the taxes they paid. So they either get ALL of their taxes back, or in some cases, like Earned Income Credit (mostly for single moms), they get more back than they paid in.
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

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