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Thread: Skill vs. Strength/speed

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violent Designs View Post
    Strength/Power + Speed can also beat skill.

    Roy Jones Jr. crushed dozens of opponents with physical advantage attributes alone.

    He beat Bernard Hopkins who was the more skilled and technical fighter.

    Later on when his explosiveness and speed died down a lot, Hopkins avenged the loss.

    Technique will be there, power will decrease, and speed will decrease, but to think that power and speed have less importance than pure technique is silly thinking. Plenty of less technical fighters get by with raw aggressive, power, and strength.
    Finally, some words of wisdom! But how can an old man beat a young man? Not with strength or speed, only skill.

    EO

  2. #32
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    Hopefully that will be enough.

    But the old man shouldn't have to worry about fighting. He should have his students doing the fighting.
    It is bias to think that the art of war is just for killing people. It is not to kill people, it is to kill evil. It is a strategem to give life to many people by killing the evil of one person.
    - Yagyū Munenori

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    rtial skill who doesn't practice totality in their vessel maintenance.

    Doing only internal martial arts without supplemental work will get you exactly no where martially.
    This is exactly my point. But....if the goal of martial arts is to be as efficient as possible (as I mentioned anyone that's gassed out in fight knows what I'm talking about), then training these things ad nauseum doesn't actually make you a better fighter. Training for inefficiency (ie stamina, strength, speed etc) is counterproductive to training to be efficient in terms of both strategy and body mechanics(and it is my experience that the internal arts are most efficient ie don't require strength.)

    EO

  4. #34
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    It amazes me that people still debate that strength and size are not the most important aspects of fighting. They are.

    The reason all combat sports have weight classes is this very reason. Two individuals with fairly equal skill sets, but one outweighs the other by 20 pounds, guess who wins 99 percent of the time.

    The only time the smaller guy wins is when his skill far outweighs the bigger guys, and even than the big guy has the chance to overpower him or the "puncher's chance" comes into play.

    Nothing is more laughable than internal retards who think strength training and lifting weights are somehow bad for you. Sad really.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". -Cus D'Amato

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Eagle_76 View Post

    Nothing is more laughable than internal retards who think strength training and lifting weights are somehow bad for you. Sad really.
    Ah, but that's not what we're arguing about. That's the old argument.

    I practice internal, strength train and do cardio. But these are really counterproductive aims. Being stronger doesn't make me a better internal martial artists because internal arts, done properly, doesn't require much strength.

    EO

  6. #36
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    Everything takes strength. Walking up a flight of stairs takes strength. Opening a door takes strength. Saying internal martial arts or any martial arts doesn't take strength is like saying you can breathe without oxygen.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". -Cus D'Amato

  7. #37
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    As you grow older, your body will fail you. Period, accept it.
    Deception and treachery will be your martial allies in your autumn years.

    Don't be that person who can do something in their mind but cannot firect their physical body to do it.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Olson View Post
    This is exactly my point. But....if the goal of martial arts is to be as efficient as possible
    It's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Olson View Post
    (as I mentioned anyone that's gassed out in fight knows what I'm talking about), then training these things ad nauseum doesn't actually make you a better fighter. Training for inefficiency (ie stamina, strength, speed etc) is counterproductive to training to be efficient in terms of both strategy and body mechanics(and it is my experience that the internal arts are most efficient ie don't require strength.)
    You are predicating this non-argument on woefully misguided assumptions and prejudices.

    Efficiency does not preclude strength. Conservation of energy, economy of movement presuppose strength and stamina. What exactly is it that you think is being conserved?

    If you have no strength how are you going to execute those proper body mechanics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Olson View Post
    I practice internal, strength train and do cardio. But these are really counterproductive aims. Being stronger doesn't make me a better internal martial artists because internal arts, done properly, doesn't require much strength.
    I too want to be a bad ass without all the pain and sweat.

    I bet if you packaged these esoteric internal practices the right way you could net some serious $$$$$.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Olson View Post
    Finally, some words of wisdom! But how can an old man beat a young man? Not with strength or speed, only skill.
    Since when does age preclude being strong and fast?

    How can you apply skill without strength? How can this all powerful skill be brought to bear for any significant duration without stamina?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    This is not a veiled request for compliments

    The short story is I did 325# for one set of 1 rep.

    1) Does this sound gifted, or just lucky?

  9. #39

    2 Words


  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    You beat me to it !!
    You C ock !
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    Great guy.

    Notable that he grew feeble as he aged, but was much stronger and more able than all the men of his own age and most that were a generation younger than him.

    I grew up watching that guy daily.
    Frggin awesome and living proof that strength and stamina are key to physical fitness on every level.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  12. #42

    Aging Myths

    Their are a lot of myths about aging that we simply accept for lack of better understanding.

    Read on: http://www.aarp.org/health/fitness/i...-athletes.html

  13. #43
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    http://www.jacklalanne.com/jacks-adv...and-honors.php



    0 items $0.00
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    Feats and Honors

    1954 Age 40: Swam the length of the San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge underwater with 140 pounds of equipment, including two air tanks… an undisputed world record.

    1955 Age 41: Swam, handcuffed, from Alcatraz to Fisherman’s Wharf in
    San Francisco, CA.

    1956 Age 42: Set a world record of 1,033 pushups in 23 minutes on “You Asked for It, a TV Show with Art Baker.

    1957 Age 43: Swam the treacherous Golden Gate Channel, towing a 2,500-pound cabin cruiser. This involved fighting the cold, swift ocean currents that made the 1 mile swim a 6 ½ mile test of strength and endurance.

    1958 Age 44: Maneuvered a paddleboard 30 miles, 9-½ hours non-stop from Farallon Islands to the San Francisco shore.

    1959 Age 45: Completed 1,000 pushups and 1,000 chin-ups in 1 hours and 22
    minutes. “Happy” is born and The Jack LaLanne Show goes nationwide

    1974 Age 60: Swam from Alcatraz Island to Fisherman’s Wharf, for a second time handcuffed, shackled and towing a 1,000-pound boat.

    1975 Age 61: Swam the length of the Golden Gate Bridge, underwater, for a second time handcuffed, shackled and towing a 1,000-pound boat.

    1976 Age 62: Commemorating the “Spirit of ‘76”, swam 1 mile in Long Beach Harbor, handcuffed, shackled and towing 13 boats (representing the 13 original colonies) containing 76 people.

    1979 Age 65: Towed 65 boats filled with 6,500-pounds of Lousiana Pacific wood pulp while handcuffed and shackled in Lake Ashinoko, near Tokyo, Japan.

    1980 Age 66: Towed 10 boats in North Miami, Florida filled with 77 people for over a mile in less than 1 hour.

    1984 Age 70: Handcuffed, shackled and fighting strong winds and currents, towed 70 boats with 70 people from the Queen’s Way Bridge in the Long Beach Harbor to the Queen Mary, 1 ½ miles.
    1992 Age 78: Academy of Body Building and Fitness Award

    1994 Age 80: State of California Governor’s Council on Physical Fitness Lifetime Achievement Award

    1996 Age 82: Dwight D. Eisenhower Fitness Award

    1999 Age 85: Spirit of Muscle Beach Award

    2002 Age 88: Jack receives his very own star on the Hollywood Blvd. Walk of Fame

    2004 Age 90: Jack celebrates his birthday with a major media blitz in New York, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. ESPN Classic runs a 24 Hour marathon of the original Jack LaLanne Shows

    2005 Age 91: Received the Jack Webb Award from the Los Angeles Police Historical Society, the Arnold Classic Lifetime Achievement Award, Interglobal’s International Infomercial Award, the Freddie, Medical Media Public Service Award, and he was a Free Spirit honoree at Al Neuharth’s Freedom Fourm.

    2007 Age 93: Received the Treasures of Los Angeles Award, Lifetime Achievement Award from Muscle Beach, and the Y.M.C.A. Impact Award.

    2008 Age 94: Inducted into the California Hall of Fame, Parker Seminars Award, received the honorary degree of Doctor of Humanities from the Southern California University of Health Sciences, receives the People of Vision Award from the RP International, receives the Heroes Humanity Award, and was inducted into the Gallery of Legends hosted by the World Acrobatics Society.

    2009 Age 95: Jack receives Lifetime Achievement Award from Club Industry. Jack LaLanne days were observed in San Francisco and Los Angeles.



    Now, THAT is KUNG FU !
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    Their are a lot of myths about aging that we simply accept for lack of better understanding.

    Read on: http://www.aarp.org/health/fitness/i...-athletes.html
    Here's something that isn't a myth.

    We are born, we grow old, our bodies fail and we die.

    This will happen to every single one of us provided we do not suffer an unnatural death.

    Everything else is mind. The world each of us decides to live in is the one we choose to live in. If we do not do the work, we do not get the reward.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    Love me some LaLanne but truth is that we lose a certain percentage of muscle mass as we age.

    So, yes, by all means do strength training to preserve your muscle mass. But if you want to be able to fight as you get older, or defend yourself, or whatever, you're not going to do so by being stronger than the next guy.

    That's the real delusion here. It's where skill comes into play and even guys that do so-called "external" arts become more "internal" as they get older...meaning they rely less on strength and more on skill. Internal just starts from that premise.

    EO

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