Practicing techniques "too deadly for the ring"

[Wildwoo]

[sanjuro_ronin]

this is like argueing with my ex. She has an agenda, and no matter what you say, she will say it, whether or not it is actually the original subject..
In other words, no one is really addressing the question here.
The question was not on the effectiveness of the techniques, but for those who do practice these, how are they practiced?
Face it, you can't claw a face, grip a trachea, kick or tear a groin, gauge an eye, etc..legally. So you need to find as many types of approximations as possible.
Vital point strikes, which are pulled on sparring, can be practiced on a BOB. You can put on chest pads-Macho is almost bulletproof, and bang away on each other.
There are hanging man-like dummies that you can practice groin kicks on, but yuo can simply bang at the underside of a heavybag, or have your partner hold the pad facing downward.
Clawing cannot be done to the face, but you can get feedback from your partner by gripping his shoulder.
Various substances can be used for breaking-if done without a set-up, and using sudden explosiveness, you can guage whether or not you actually have the short power to do damage.
You can use clay and make a head, perhaps cover a plastic skull with it, and claw and rip away. (I did this on a whim, when I was in art school, during sculpture class. My teacher thought I was a bit..disturbed..)
But honestly, the only way to see if your technique works, is to do it. Of course, this is not moral, or legal, but it is a fact.

Training and conditioning any technique is easy, bag work, dummy work and so forth.
What you are truly asking is how does one test those skills?
We can grab the iron bag as much as we want and close the captn's of crush as many times as we can but that doesn't equal being able to crush a throat does it?
Well, yeah it kind of does, technically, bu not intent-wise and I guess that is the point.
If I can crush 3" of concrete slab with a knife hand I have the speed and power and conditioning to do it to someone's neck or throat or ribs, BUT CAN I do it?

Goes back to what I said earlier.

If you can fight with your "hands ties behind your back" you can fight with them not tied.

[Eric Olson]

If I can crush 3" of concrete slab with a knife hand I have the speed and power and conditioning to do it to someone's neck or throat or ribs, BUT CAN I do it?

That's what I'm getting at.


EO

[YouKnowWho]

BUT CAN I do it?

How to train bitting?

beginner level - get a raw pig leg and sink your teeth all he way to the bone.

intemediate level - try to bite a live snake's head off, or a life dog's leg off.

advantage stage - go to the zoo and try your skill against a life lion or tiger.

[Eric Olson]

How to train bitting?

beginner level - get a raw pig leg and sink your teeth all he way to the bone.

intemediate level - try to bite a live snake's head off, or a life dog's leg off.

advantage stage - go to the zoo and try your skill against a life lion or tiger.

Hahahaha....

[David Jamieson]

hahahaha, this would make for some good advertising.

[Lucas]

teh deadly.

i do believe it is important for realistic martial artists to think about this.

break down, how i see it. technique, application, effect, usage.

if i go backwards. you learn to use the technique under resistant pressure by applying standard similar techniques in a free fighting format. you can test the effects of your techniques through various means using training equipment, controlled application or even, depending on how serious you are, you can apply some techniques to dead animal flesh. as for application and technique, teaching these follows the same guidelines you use to teach anything in MA.

its the usage and effect people wonder most about. once you get to the point where you feel you are confident in applying your most common fighting techniques in a free fight, then all that is left is do you know your techniques will have the desired effect once you apply them?

for this its pretty much all just conditioning. if you cannot put your fingers into a steak, why bother even thinking about a living throat...if you cannot rend and tear a feathered turkey....then why bother with a face? personally i would rather use tools to maim.

[sanjuro_ronin]

None of this was usually an issue in the "old says" since by the time you learned the "too deadlY' were had already developed the skills ( via fighting) you need to apply the "too deadly" so you didn't have to worry about whether you could.

[Lucas]

condemned criminals should still be used for martial arts studies.

[Lucas]

None of this was usually an issue in the "old says" since by the time you learned the "too deadlY' were had already developed the skills ( via fighting) you need to apply the "too deadly" so you didn't have to worry about whether you could.

totally, and honestly it shouldnt be an issue even today...

[goju]

i just modify alot of the "too deadly attacks" to land on legal spots

i figure if i want to fight "dirty" ill just be able to do it if i need to and from my small street fighting experience i didnt have a hard time alternating from legal to dirty

for example in the Saifa bunkai there is a move where you grab the hair and pull them into an upper cut.Obviously in most fight settings you cant pull the hair so i just grab the back of the head or neck and i got legal dirty boxing in mma

[YouKnowWho]

dirty boxing

There is "dirty throwing" as well. In the following move (at 0.03), if you just sit down on your opponent's right knee instead of step your left leg forward, you can send him to emergency room for knee operation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARDeMEP_V1k

[MightyB]

I usually just go to the shooting range. In theory- paintball and airsoft should also make good substitutes for training the too deadly techniques.

[lkfmdc]

Youknowwho already knows the answer to this first question...

IE, how many "no rules" fights do you think Chang Dung Sheng had? The guy was a military officer and sort of state police as well. He had plenty. Yet he still seemed to think that basic and straight forward worked. He was not an advocate of chi blasts, dim mak, etc

In Brazil for quite a long time they really were "no rules" / vale tudo... there is plenty of kung fu in Brazil, but no one stepped into the ring to dim mak any of those guys

Some people will stick their fingers in their ears and go "na na" over and over again, doesn't change the basic truth

[Lucas]

i dim mak everything