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Where is this ?
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I believe that they could use more angling when in a defensive mode. They could also avoid going back every time pressure builds, but then I am using my own distinct references as regards the WC I have been taught. Pretty interesting, anyway.
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Its a deliberate test...nothing more. When the tan comes she angles to counter strike and face in one action, he allows this 'sometimes'and then if she thinks her stance is good, ie knees , hips, elbows, can she strike his chest AND simultaneously deflect his strike in.... he proceeds to step and face her too, shoving her stance with his step, not the way we fight, the way we 'test'...so the fighting 'habit' is to also optionally counter attack by angling to the side of the extending line of force, tactics means you evade the other arm .
He mutually also trains to shadow her and use facing 'chew ying' .
I f I step into you, seung ma and you step back with me , toi ma, its a chi-sao stance mobility exercise, we do it to test correct foot work, which foot leads , how wide, too narrow, arms collapse elbows out ?.... We also go sideways...all over, clock face.
The same clip you see can go further when she steps sideways to his facing after her angling, he then follows her or whatever, it becomes an intuitive "shadow attacks shadow". We only turn to face each others movement, so if you turn before me you potentially also open a line to your center if I am in the facing position. This is a common mistake easily taken advantage of .
The same drill moves on to be a pre sparring drill done randomly without sticking, instead we start a few feet away from each other and one throws punches while the other optionally angles and reface anglers etc...while fighting with a lead and rear hand, man sao & wu sao.
You can angle and counter or simply blast in with usual pak-da without any angling....but if I do angle and make any contact or pak as I angle, the chi-sao drilling makes me solid with focused force 'ging' ballistic force etc.. , iow Im not falling around or chasing arms with open centerlines, bad elbows, etc...another part of the angling idea in chi-sao. To make sure when you do angle the alignment is correct , or you open a line to your center either side of your extending arm, subtle but there for a guy who fights with the wu sao as the 'next line in' regardless of what you do to the lead....
The preceding dan chi-sao lok sao all help the basic requirements of alignment, then you add motion and alignment, etc...
When it all comes together at full sparring speed you have no time for corrections like chi-sao allows.
If you ever want to meet up again let me know
you can see the ballistic idea at 2:22 in the clip, instead of turning your body and use bong to redirect , you face and 'slap' sharply with bong while still facing a now turned opponent...by the same logic if you try to turn me using bong and your body while I face.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQBhp-2nQ-E&NR=1
Last edited by k gledhill; 04-05-2011 at 06:40 PM. Reason: commas good !
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Its a training drill used for developing certain attributes. Going back is important in this drill. Don't over analyse!!!! For those that know whats going on they will see things that those who don't cannot!!!!Originally Posted by Hardwork108
I believe that they could use more angling when in a defensive mode. They could also avoid going back every time pressure builds, but then I am using my own distinct references as regards the WC I have been taught. Pretty interesting, anyway.This is the case with all video clips that have been put up that Philipp is present in. They are just drills and teaching methods for improving his students behaviour in fighting. Nothing more!!!
If you want a true idea of his Ving Tsun then you must visit him and then you can join the converted as myself and Kevin have!!!
GH
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...Don't over analyse!!!! For those that know whats going on they will see things that those who don't cannot!!!!
GH[/QUOTE]
The same could be said by pretty much anybody else on here whose methods you don't agree with/understand, yet quite freely criticize in nearly every instance....
...and for the record I'm not a hater, I can see the benefit of this drill....currently WSL, but also studied in depth Lee Shing and Chu Shong Tin and gratefully accepted the different methods which contributed to my martial development....
GM of Hadaka Korosu
Good stuff, while I personally dislike anything that starts from chi sao, it was still good stuff.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be my Lord my Rock,
He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !
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Badnews!!!
The same could be said by pretty much anybody else on here whose methods you don't agree with/understand, yet quite freely criticize in nearly every instance....
...and for the record I'm not a hater, I can see the benefit of this drill....currently WSL, but also studied in depth Lee Shing and Chu Shong Tin and gratefully accepted the different methods which contributed to my martial development....
GH
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She's moving back because HE'S BETTER and HE'S MAKING HER move back.I believe that they could use more angling when in a defensive mode. They could also avoid going back every time pressure builds, but then I am using my own distinct references as regards the WC I have been taught. Pretty interesting, anyway.
Jeez.
Let's see a video with her and a junior and you'll see the same thing, except she'll be pushing the junior all over the place.
An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. Friedrich Engels
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Seung ma, toi ma drills are mutual, done either direction.
not to show superiority, testing stances,facing,etc...
fighting later.
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GH
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GH
the stances are wing chun stances-by no means limited to PB or WSL.
joy chaudhuri
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What attribute, the running away one? How can one accept and "embrace" incoming force when one is letting it overwhelm him?
Seriously, that is not the way I have been taught in Wing Chun, nor Chow Gar, for that matter, as the idea is that once you start going back, you then get "run over". I have seen this kind of Chi sao training while looking at some WC schools in London.
The principle of not going back in kung fu is not just limited to Wing Chun, but other kung fu styles which give emphasis to Internal aspects such as "softness", fine tuned sensitivity and "listening", as well as certain types of power development.
The "approach" of not going back has fundamental implications as regards distinct TCMA training methodologies and the skills and faculties that are required. Many of these aspects are missing from most modern "kung fu" schools.
So IMHO, any serious kung fu student should research the principle of not going back and its REQUIREMENTS as regards skill and physical faculties.
Note: I also commented on what I saw as a lack of angling during defensive actions.
Let's connect the dots, shall we?
So, Structure and "strong body unity" to create core power; fine tuned "softness", "sensitivity" and "listening" abilities; together with a more fluid angling. Can you see what I am getting to?
The only way I was taught to go back in Wing Chun was during emergencies, when I would take ONE step back to recover the Central Line.
I was just comparing it to the way I was taught kung fu. Could it be that it is you, who is over analysing what I said?
Well, from what I have seen from various sifu's, I would say that they would see this type of exercise as something that would create bad habits.For those that know whats going on they will see things that those who don't cannot!!!!
I have never ever been taught to go back like that, even when my sifu would be raining blows left, right and center during contacty chi sao training (and sparring). The mindset is to keep your mind calm, absorb and angle and find a way through with strikes and or chin-na techniques.
I am sure that he is a dedicated and decent WC sifu. However, this being a public forum, I gave my perspective, based on my own Wing Chun training, as regards what I saw on that video.If you want a true idea of his Ving Tsun then you must visit him and then you can join the converted as myself and Kevin have!!!
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It is pretty obvious that she was going back because of his pressure. However, my sifu would do the same to me and tell me off every time I went back. He would show me how NOT to go back during such pressure.
Again, the junior should be taught NOT to go back when under pressure. That is what all of the misunderstood concepts such as "softness", "sensitivity" and "listening" are all about, not to mention the fluid use of angling.
The way I see it, if you get used to going back, which is actually a normal human reaction to oncoming danger, then the idea of hopping around, out of one's roots/stance, to avoid getting hit, as in boxing/sports karate, etc., is not too far behind, and this is what one sees in a lot of "kung fu" fighting nowadays.
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Very strong forward pressure training which cover the frontal space with hi intensity. Great!
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