New Philipp Bayer clip

[Vajramusti]

Joy,

ok.

Thanks!

---------------------------------------------
No problem Hendrik. I do respect WSL but I am quite happy with the wing chun lineage that I am in:have not had any interest in switching. I just watch other lines to develop my own sense of Ip Man;s legacy. Of course I try things out myself- always have.

Better than chest beating or putting down others.

To see a slt taught directly at length by Ip Man you might want to take a look at Ho Kam Ming's SLT. The DVD has been out for a while.
My computer shortcomings prevents me from showing it here.

Cheers,

joy chaudhuri

[Graham H]

What I noticed is that bayer is working too far above students level at times in clip, that is why shes bouncing back in uncontrolled fashion. Perhaps if he turned it down slightly she would gain more ,gradually turning it up over time to full on.

reguards
fred <B>

Fred

Ok so maybe I will reply........coz I'm bored and waiting for training to start.

Your Teacher HAS to operate above the students level so they can improve and get used to the exchange of force. Without this sort of training your strength (specifically strength required for VT) will not improve.
Philipp teaches in a manner where he will come to your level and lower so you can train the right action through the whole range of motion but will then turn it on again so you get used to operating when things start to get faster and the exchange of forces are greater. This is a careful systematic way of finding errors and correcting them. Philipp told me it was the same when he was being taught by WSL. You have to experience your Teachers force and skill so you know where your goals lay. With your training partners we can then drill and attain the required attributes, then its back to sparring or fighting your Teacher to see if you have improved and then find more errors to work on.
It is the same with my students..I teach the same way and use the same methods. There is no ego just seeing where your mistakes are and then going away to improve....

I will say it again for the millionth time!!!!! You or anybody else (apart form those that have been in contact with PB) do not know his skill, his training ideas or he as a person. All you can do is watch video and speculate and not one person has come close to the judging what is actually going on in these clips......If you don't know you won't see it so do me a favour and stop trying!!!

GH

[k gledhill]

The exchange of seung ma toi ma is very important for each to have stability while exchanging all the combined force vectors at once AND coming into contact with the opponents energy. The sparring will prove weaknesses etc... sudden meeting of momentum to a point.
Philipp also says this about other aspects of drilling, we must max out and go beyond our own levels as our goal, no limit as limit. An example is doing stance work in CK. We 'axis turn' to unify 'power points' while our balance is tested to the point of losing it , on our own not with a partner yet.
We fight our own ability to regain/maintain balance as we spin on our axis line. We further our ability to generate force to our max while moving and shifting in a fight, not fighting for balance in the fight itself.
Not an " I'm better than.." statement, but a "..what I usually see.." is a lot of static chi-sao, with a waddle here or there fighting hands. As soon as you spar and try to stay balanced /facing it falls apart. Simple things, basics, stance alignment, strikes aimed with force , ability to cut lines of force with solid structured stances ...you cant SEE this in clips, you feeeeeeel

[mvbrown21]

is a lot of static chi-sao, with a waddle here or there fighting hands. As soon as you spar and try to stay balanced /facing it falls apart. Simple things, basics, stance alignment, strikes aimed with force , ability to cut lines of force with solid structured stances ...you cant SEE this in clips, you feeeeeeel

You guys might think that I don't understand what you're talking about, but I do, and I just like my "path" better. Period.

I can tell you one thing though, both you and Graham are losing some serious credibility by all the crap talking you both do. I understand that one can only "feeeeeel " certain things. But I would like to actually "seeeeee " both of you do something! If not Chi Sao, then why not forms, drills, etc. I think everyone in this forum is dying to "seeeee " how close you guys actually look to Mr. Bayer(whom I have respect for). And then, only then, will you possibly, actually be taken a little more seriously! So let's "seeeee " something fellas. We might not "seeeee " what you want us to see but we'll definitely know whether you're credible or not!

And just on a side note, don't even try to point out that there's no demos coming from Joy. When either one of you actually have articles published in "Inside Kung Fu" magazine, then you can skip it and we'll take you seriously.

I'm mean come on, you both sound like a couple of Protestants who claim that the Catholic church did nothing for Christianity!!!

[Buddha_Fist]

You guys might think that I don't understand what you're talking about, but I do, and I just like my "path" better. Period.

I can tell you one thing though, both you and Graham are losing some serious credibility by all the crap talking you both do. I understand that one can only "feeeeeel " certain things. But I would like to actually "seeeeee " both of you do something! If not Chi Sao, then why not forms, drills, etc. I think everyone in this forum is dying to "seeeee " how close you guys actually look to Mr. Bayer(whom I have respect for). And then, only then, will you possibly, actually be taken a little more seriously! So let's "seeeee " something fellas. We might not "seeeee " what you want us to see but we'll definitely know whether you're credible or not!

And just on a side note, don't even try to point out that there's no demos coming from Joy. When either one of you actually have articles published in "Inside Kung Fu" magazine, then you can skip it and we'll take you seriously.

I'm mean come on, you both sound like a couple of Protestants who claim that the Catholic church did nothing for Christianity!!!

Just as a side-note: Having an article in Inside Kung-Fu is by no means a measure of quality considering the crap they often publish. Not a jab at Joy, just stating the way things are...

[mvbrown21]

Just as a side-note: Having an article in Inside Kung-Fu is by no means a measure of quality considering the crap they often publish. Not a jab at Joy, just stating the way things are...

I understand that and agree with you in a lot of cases, but when they wanted an article about Augustine Fong, whom is respected throughout the entire Wing Chun world, they took an article that was co-written by Fong and Joy. That does say something and it says something that Fong wanted Joy to write them

[Buddha_Fist]

I understand that and agree with you in a lot of cases, but when they wanted an article about Augustine Fong, whom is respected throughout the entire Wing Chun world, they took an article that was co-written by Fong and Joy. That does say something and it says something that Fong wanted Joy to write them

Who is the entire Wing Chun world? Even if that was true, does the Wing Chun world's opinion matter when 95% of Wing Chun schools out there can't even match up with a simple boxer with 12 months of training?

[mvbrown21]

Im not the 'clip' poster like you Matt. I dont need guys to like me, or to seek credibility either, especially from waddling, hand chasers
What article did Joy write ? I would like to read it.

I don't need guys to like me, I'm doing what any open-minded individual does on a Kung Fu forum who wants to both share and "learn" from others perspective. I'm not going around bashing people because they don't do what I do!

As far as the articles go, here you go buddy - let's see here,

Journal of Asian Martial Arts, Volume 16, No 4

Journal of Asian Martial Arts, Volume 4, No 4

Inside Kung Fu, May 2003

Inside Kung Fu, May - Martial Arts Legends Presents 1998

Kung Fu/Qi Gong Magazine, 2001

Kung Fu/Qi Gong Magazine, w/ Master Fong

Two articles on Fong's website

Here's the link to them all http://www.tempewingchun.com/articles.html

[fred]

sounds good fred. what wsl ine are you from

HI Benny,

Am from Nino bernardo family , and you ?

reguards,

fred <B>

[wkmark]

Thanks for the reply graham,nothing i havent heard before, and how strange same way my teacher&others operate , hmm wonder why. Of course only bayer got the real method off wsl, not the guys who trained fulltime with him in 70's, the guys he chose to train
You need to get off the bandwagon have yet to see anything unique in bayers approach. He appears to have good skill but so do many other wsl guys. I was planning to visit him sooner or later but your postings have put me off. Your making his method sound like a cult and his students well, just hope there not all like you.

reguards,
fred <B>

Guys Guys guys.... To be honest, we are all under the WSL family Lineage... It's a shame in a sense to see the bickering and put down within the same family lineage. This is what causes Ving Tsun to be the laughed at when we can't even communicate without the put downs and bickerings amongst ourselves.

Barry and Philip sihings are both good at what they teach and practice under the WSL method. Each has something to offer. Instead of trying to say who's missing what and who's wrong etc.. why not offer suggestions and examinations for each of their respective students so that they can continue to expand the WSL method. Sifu WSL never had any ego himself and never said who was better at what as long as it gets the job done in a sense. I doubt he would want to know that his student's students are fighting among themselves as being the ONLY way.

There are many approaches to WSL Ving Tsun method in a sense (I mention WSL method because I am not familiar with the other family's method given that over time the families after Yip Man has changed quite a bit; thus I can only mention WSL method as I am still able to meet with the various Sihings who are still in Hong Kong training and teaching.) The main thing is that our core objectives are still the same.
d
We frequently have students of Barry Lee, David Peterson, Philip Bayer, and others come to train with us for a few days to a week to go over each other's Ving Tsun; and I have had the honor and pleasure of training with all of them. This is not a contest to see who is right or who is wrong. We are just trying to share our knowledge and vice versa so that we can keep the WSL Method alive and strong.

There are plenty of spaces in the WORLD to accommodate all of WSL's students to expand his teachings. Just look at the amount of WSL student's who are teaching in Hong Kong and Hong Kong is a pretty small place. We all get along somewhat but it's a mutual understanding that we are trying to share what Sifu WSL taught us and not to say who's VT is right/wrong etc. In the end, the student is the person who will be using their VT. We greatly hope it won't be a copy of their teachers but something they use as a base and start to develop the VT that caters to their body, personality and experiences.

Anyways... I just felt that I wanted to share my view of this as I am relatively close to the WSL family. (Meaning Sifu, Simo, and their sons and family)

P.S.- Fred, if you DO get a chance, please do go visit Philip and any other WSL students as they are all very nice people with a great amount of knowledge. =)

[Frost]

A view from outside (take it for what it is or reject it out of hand)

But….Good god 8 pages of basically posturing and D*ck measuring (my wing chun’s better than yours my sifu has the real deal from WSL etc) and not one clip of anyone involved actually sparring or doing any training (Honourable mention to Matt who really didn’t know what he was letting himself in for by manning up and posting apparently)

If you feel so strongly about it why not just show it in action, I mean you all have the time to type pages and pages on it so it must be important to you and you run your own schools so how much does it take to set up a camera and upload a 5 minute clips of you chi sauing and then sparring using your superior method?

And if you are going to say you can tell from a clip you need to feel, why the F7ck do you talk down on the clips you do see saying they show the same useless misguided rubbish….

[Sihing73]

Some things never change.

This thread is closed until I have time to clean it up. Then we can try again.

Seems a shame that a few always seem to feel the need for attention at the expense of others.