Misconceptions about Wing Chun

[CFT]

We've seen quite a few videos now of Philipp Bayer training and using his Ving Tsun. No doubt he is an inspiration to his students and those in the wider VT/WC community.

Something occured to me the other day about some of the actions and hand 'postures' in Wing Chun.

Wu sao is performed with hand outstretched, fingers vertical. Some people perform laap sau as a grabbing/pulling action.

Clearly Philipp can't do that on one side because he only has one hand. This made me question some of the basic premises of the Wing Chun postures/actions. How is the basic action performed, from where? I'm guessing elbow, elbow, elbow.

Comments? Especially from PB students Kevin G and Graham H.

[JamesC]

Nope.

From the sphincter.

[Graham H]

Nope.

From the sphincter.

Does James C stand for James C**t????

GH

[JamesC]

Does James C stand for James C**t????

GH

Maybe...

[CFT]

You mean from your stance?

Yes, I'm sure that is part of the answer too.

[Graham H]

We've seen quite a few videos now of Philipp Bayer training and using his Ving Tsun. No doubt he is an inspiration to his students and those in the wider VT/WC community.

Something occured to me the other day about some of the actions and hand 'postures' in Wing Chun.

Wu sao is performed with hand outstretched, fingers vertical. Some people perform laap sau as a grabbing/pulling action.

Clearly Philipp can't do that on one side because he only has one hand. This made me question some of the basic premises of the Wing Chun postures/actions. How is the basic action performed, from where? I'm guessing elbow, elbow, elbow.

Comments? Especially from PB students Kevin G and Graham H.

Chee

Why don't you hop on a plane and go and find out yourself instead of asking for answers that are not able to be answered correctly through the written word!!!

£34 return from London Luton on EasyJet.

A journey that I'm sure you will not be sorry about on your return. That way you can join myself and Kevin rubbishing other people for no apparent reason and over using the word "elbow"!!! LMAO

GH

[Sean66]

You said it CFT; elbow, elbow elbow. And the connection between the elbows and the hips. This is drilled over and over again in chi sao, lap sau and the various footwork drills- along with pretty much everything else!

Here is how Mr. Bayer described it during a recent discussion on a German martial arts forum:

"Lap Sao zb. dient u.a. der Koordination zwischen Jut und dem Fausstoß. Koordination von Hüfte und Ellenbogen und Zug, mit dem Ziel die Kraft des ganzen Körpers in die Schläge bringen zu können...."

"Lap Sao, for example, helps build, among other things, the coordination between the Jut and punch. Coordination between hips, elbows and pull - the goal being the ability to bring the power of the whole body into one's punches...."(italics mine)

[Graham H]

maybe...

lol :d:d:d:d

[Graham H]

"Lap Sao, for example, helps build, among other things, the coordination between the Jut and punch. Coordination between hips, elbows and pull - the goal being the ability to bring the power of the whole body into one's punches...."(italics mine)

Thank you Sean

to add.......not only jut sau and the punch but also during the changes : pak sau and the punch, bong sau and the punch (Kwan Sau) and various other tools all designed for improving ones Ving Tsun behaviour!!

........also using the syncronization of the pivot with jut sau and the punch and later the step jut sau and the punch.

The stepping to the side to encourage your training partner to cut the way, jut sau with the punch all together using the whole body is one of Philipp's favourite drills as taught to him by WSL.
GH

[Sean66]

Exactly, Graham.
And, personally, I think that one of the best ways of training this is on the wooden dummy. Through the dummy training (correctly done, with the right concepts guiding the movement) you can really get the feel of the coordinated, whole body power.

The first time I felt Philipp's Jut, I thought my arm was going to be ripped off. Then I saw him going to town on the dummy doing a Jut/Punch drill, and I understood why!

Of course, it's not just the dummy training. And herein lies the genius of the system - all the training methods serve to re-inforce and correct each other. Re-inforce and correct the "Ving Tsun behavior", as you put it.

[k gledhill]

What they said....you dont have any advantage with hands
against Philipp...imagine your arms as two short poles striking
out and swaping the centerline so the strike also clears the way for the follow up.
dan gwan aka jutsao ....etc. With the arms we can do in one action what the pole does in two ...dan gwan ....hit.
like pole we aim at opponent, if you align the pole strike, add body weight ,momentum......you can see similarities. Ballistic displacement prior to strike while maintaining line integrity...
like Many, we thought we knew vt until we met humble Philipp
Bayer.

[CFT]

Graham, I would. Or look you or Desmond Spencer up. At this moment in life my personal circumstances don't gve me that freedom.

I'm not in prison, just have 2 young children to help look after! You would think 2 vs. 2 is an even fight, especially since we have the physical advantage - but noooooo!!!

[Graham H]

The first time I felt Philipp's Jut, I thought my arm was going to be ripped off. Then I saw him going to town on the dummy doing a Jut/Punch drill, and I understood why!

Me too!!! lol

Philipp is a Ving Tsun freak of nature!! LOL

GH

[Graham H]

.
like Many, we thought we knew vt until we met humble Philipp
Bayer.

Correct!!! I just wish certain other individuals on this forum would accept that instead of thinking we belong to some sort of cult where Philipp has brainwashed us!!

GH

[Graham H]

Graham, I would. Or look you or Desmond Spencer up. At this moment in life my personal circumstances don't gve me that freedom.

I'm not in prison, just have 2 young children to help look after! You would think 2 vs. 2 is an even fight, especially since we have the physical advantage - but noooooo!!!

Chee

I hear you man!!

Juggling life as always LOL.

GH