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Thread: Gatka - Martial art of Sikhs

  1. #1
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    Gatka - Martial art of Sikhs

    I think that there are many ties between India and China, especially regarding how martial arts methods are transmitted through time.

    Having said that, I do believe each nations/peoples martial arts have long been separate and unique, but, it is not difficult to see many similarities that may indeed have the same origin.

    Have a look at Gatka weapons and weapons sparring:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C54ie5mCLU

    Kung Fu is good for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I think that there are many ties between India and China, especially regarding how martial arts methods are transmitted through time.

    Having said that, I do believe each nations/peoples martial arts have long been separate and unique, but, it is not difficult to see many similarities that may indeed have the same origin.

    Have a look at Gatka weapons and weapons sparring:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C54ie5mCLU

    Funny you should bring this up, me living in Brampton and all, LOL !
    A friend invited me to one of their "training sessions" and it was quite interesting, very formalized and ceremonial, very religious and no actual sparring outside of pre-arranged choregraphed routines.
    After wards they asked my opinion and I, of course, gave it, LOL !
    A few agreed but a couple thought that I was too harsh so I quickly volunteered to test their views.
    I was told that was forbidden.
    About a week after that I met up with my friend again and he and a few others wanted to try ther hand at "full contact" sparring with the wooden replicas and I said, great, let's play.
    Of course there was a rude awkening in realizing that what they THOUGHT happens, doesn't , there was the rude awkening that their "twirling attack" is useless against someone that moves in ( LOL) and there was the very rude awkening of fighting someone that doesn't follow the set pattern of their "dance".
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Funny you should bring this up, me living in Brampton and all, LOL !
    A friend invited me to one of their "training sessions" and it was quite interesting, very formalized and ceremonial, very religious and no actual sparring outside of pre-arranged choregraphed routines.
    After wards they asked my opinion and I, of course, gave it, LOL !
    A few agreed but a couple thought that I was too harsh so I quickly volunteered to test their views.
    I was told that was forbidden.
    About a week after that I met up with my friend again and he and a few others wanted to try ther hand at "full contact" sparring with the wooden replicas and I said, great, let's play.
    Of course there was a rude awkening in realizing that what they THOUGHT happens, doesn't , there was the rude awkening that their "twirling attack" is useless against someone that moves in ( LOL) and there was the very rude awkening of fighting someone that doesn't follow the set pattern of their "dance".
    Rude awakening s in martial arts are simply learning moments.
    If it cannot be recognized by the person, then there is a failure to perceive reality at play.

    Any art that uses shape as the only vehicle of transmission and doesn't test the mettle so to speak is fraudulent in it's offerings as a martial art.

    But, in the context of cultural art form, then it makes sense to promote it as such and give it value and meaning in that respect and to not try and convince people that it is something that it is clearly not.

    Nothing wrong with ritual combat as long as it is recognized as such, approached as such and dealt with as such.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Funny you should bring this up, me living in Brampton and all, LOL !
    A friend invited me to one of their "training sessions" and it was quite interesting, very formalized and ceremonial, very religious and no actual sparring outside of pre-arranged choregraphed routines.
    After wards they asked my opinion and I, of course, gave it, LOL !
    A few agreed but a couple thought that I was too harsh so I quickly volunteered to test their views.
    I was told that was forbidden.
    About a week after that I met up with my friend again and he and a few others wanted to try ther hand at "full contact" sparring with the wooden replicas and I said, great, let's play.
    Of course there was a rude awkening in realizing that what they THOUGHT happens, doesn't , there was the rude awkening that their "twirling attack" is useless against someone that moves in ( LOL) and there was the very rude awkening of fighting someone that doesn't follow the set pattern of their "dance".

    They have my respect for actually seeking to test their stuff out, even if it didn't work.
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Rude awakening s in martial arts are simply learning moments.
    If it cannot be recognized by the person, then there is a failure to perceive reality at play.

    Any art that uses shape as the only vehicle of transmission and doesn't test the mettle so to speak is fraudulent in it's offerings as a martial art.

    But, in the context of cultural art form, then it makes sense to promote it as such and give it value and meaning in that respect and to not try and convince people that it is something that it is clearly not.

    Nothing wrong with ritual combat as long as it is recognized as such, approached as such and dealt with as such.
    Agreed.
    Sikh's are a very militant bunch, that's for sure.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Agreed.
    Sikh's are a very militant bunch, that's for sure.
    Yeah, well, when we look at how they are treated in India and the history of how they have been under constant attack since their religions inception, then it is easy to see what's up with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    Not too mention the bloody stupid things said in the punjabi newspapers about martyrs, guru's favourites, etc etc. Big stink about one of the writers that was or is employed by one of the big 2 punjabi papers in your town.

    The more integration we get in this country, the more we get to see how each cultures thought processes carry burdens of error that are magnificent in some cases! Even our own culture does this, but, you can't touch your nose to your elbow is how it goes.

    Anyway, here nor there. I thought this was all too similar a method of practice as what one would find in tma of all sorts but in particular of the chinese varieties which is indicative of the cross cultural back and forth over centuries and millenia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post

    Anyway, here nor there. I thought this was all too similar a method of practice as what one would find in tma of all sorts but in particular of the chinese varieties which is indicative of the cross cultural back and forth over centuries and millenia.
    I think that every MA has far more in common than dissimilar.
    People just tend to point out the differences, typically because they want to believe they are doing something/are part of something unique.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    I think that every MA has far more in common than dissimilar.
    People just tend to point out the differences, typically because they want to believe they are doing something/are part of something unique.
    I agree.

    Martial Arts is presented in ludicrous degrees of complexity.
    And then when you ask anyone who actually has put their time in and given/taken with them...they will invariably state it's the basics that work and that will be the bread and butter of your efforts when your martial art has to be used for realz.

    edumication is where it at.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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    Sikhs to hold international martial arts competition in San Jose

    Anyone see gatka in person?

    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19199018
    By Lisa Fernandez lfernandez@mercurynews.com
    Posted: 10/26/2011 01:55:46 PM PDT
    Updated: 10/26/2011 09:43:18 PM PDT


    Sikhs are not unfamiliar with battle, neither physical nor political, here in Silicon Valley.

    And on Saturday, the community is holding its first international Sikh martial arts competition at the San Jose Gurdwara Sahib, or Sikh temple, in the Evergreen hills.

    The battle is over who will be the best "gatka" expert, the one who best masters a sword, a stick and a shield in an ancient rite of Sikh combat.

    "This is the first international gatka contest held in California," said Sukhdev Bainiwal, a member of the San Jose Sikh temple who is in charge of the battle. The first such contest was held nine years ago in Toronto.

    He said about 200 competitors from California, New York, Houston, Maryland, New Jersey, Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver and India will participate. There are four age categories, from the under-7 group to those who are in their 60s.

    The winners share a total of $9,000 in cash prizes.

    Gatka may be best compared to the eskrima, the martial arts of the Philippines. Bainiwal said this form of martial arts is deeply infused in the Sikh religion; the sixth guru first used this technique on the battlefield.

    "It's more spiritual and more meditative," Bainiwal said.

    Members of the San Jose Sikh temple lobbied their global community to host this competition. In April, the second phase of construction on the temple was complete, making the $32 million, 110,000-square-foot complex the largest and most expensive in the country.

    The gatka competitions will be held on one stage inside the worship hall and on one outdoor stage. The temple is at 3636 Murillo Ave. and the contest runs from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. The public is invited to watch for free.

    To watch gatka videos, go to www.yudh.net.
    "The true meaning of a given movement in a form is not its application, but rather the unlimited potential of the mind to provide muscular and skeletal support for that movement." Gregory Fong

  10. #10

    It's not TCMA...

    but it's pretty cool...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15480741

    (started here to get attention, until it's banished to another forum)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    but it's pretty cool...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15480741

    (started here to get attention, until it's banished to another forum)
    ok, it's cool. But does it go beyond society for creative anachronism like any other ancient battlefield art that can't really be practical or applied with efficacy in this day and age?

    wearing armoured shoes with bladed tips isn't de rigueur these days you know.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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    Thanks for sharing that - what a shame if this art was lost.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    ok, it's cool. But does it go beyond society for creative anachronism like any other ancient battlefield art that can't really be practical or applied with efficacy in this day and age?
    no, it does not; it is purey a cultural heritage convention; like a lot of TCMA...

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    wearing armoured shoes with bladed tips isn't de rigueur these days you know.
    u apparently do not work in the field of healthcare...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    ok, it's cool. But does it go beyond society for creative anachronism like any other ancient battlefield art that can't really be practical or applied with efficacy in this day and age?

    wearing armoured shoes with bladed tips isn't de rigueur these days you know.
    some people like to attach electrodes to their genitals. some people like to help preserve their rich and ancient traditional cultures.

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  15. #15
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    Very cool.

    .... the article specified that it's not a system intended for combat but for entertainment.

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