Internal vs. External

[Siu Lum Fighter]

It's really all the same. Internal methods will give you superhuman powers though. Just practice your "external" stuff slowly and with concentration. Next thing you know you'll be levitating objects and smashing stacks of bricks with little effort.

[RenDaHai]

any art when practiced correctly is "internal," by definition; relaxed power, focused breath, intention, correct structure and alignment working as a unit, creating power and rooting.
If it is forced, relying on brute strength improperly applied, it is not "external," it is simply wrong.
.

Yup. Thats sounds absolutely correct.

[Eric Olson]

The "internal" and "external" distinctions are largely about training methods. Ultimately the goal is the reach the same end, but the path is different on both sides.

How can you arrive at the same goal with a completely different path? It might make sense from a purely spacial perspective (ie all roads lead to Rome), but we're talking about paths through time as well. The human body changes in response to stimulus over time. If you apply a completely different stimulus then it will react differently. What's the catchphrase around here "specific training leads to specific results" or something like that?

That said, there are many that would say "internal" training is pretty much useless without "external" training as a basis to work from.

Personally, I think both are important but don't necessarily require each other. In other words...the goal should be to train refined power using as little strength as required, but with an eye on maintaining muscle mass and good cardio to stay well- rounded.

Ultimately the highest levels of practice in a Shaolin style or Taiji, Bagua or Xingyi should all be pretty much the same. Relaxed and focused breathing and power emission. As David Jamieson said before.

This assumes there aren't "tricks of the trade." Every art has them and you probably won't learn them unless you stick with a knowledgeable teacher for a long time.

EO

[SPJ]

yes, there are internal aspects/ oriented training

there are also external aspects/oriented training

both are necessary

both compliment each other.

nei wai jian xiu

both internal and external are studied and practiced.

--

[bawang]

kung fu guys love to trash on internal hippies so they dont have to look in the mirror.

[David Jamieson]

Internal punch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4w_62WX9Rk (1:21)

External punch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpWELFWecvM (0:14)

Can you see the difference?

EO

there was nothing shown.

[Dragonzbane76]

I can't believe this argument is still going on!

[David Jamieson]

Believe it...because there it is! ^^^

[YouKnowWho]

I can't believe this argument is still going on!

This time we ask people if they can provide youtube clips for:

- "internal" roundhouse kick,
- "internal" hip throw,
- "internal" arm bar,
- ...

I do think if you can prove that you can do "internal" hip throw, you should write a book about it.

[TenTigers]

Yup. Thats sounds absolutely correct.

yeah, from now on, if any of you wanna know something, just ask me.
No more of this endless back and forth posting.

[TenTigers]

I can't believe this argument is still going on!

I know, right?
I'm tellin' ya, Just ask me. All these discussions are just nonesense.

[Dragonzbane76]

- "internal" roundhouse kick,
- "internal" hip throw,
- "internal" arm bar,

haha internal roundhouse? arm bar? lol

I would like to see that clip as well! but unfortunately it does not exist.


I didn't read back through this considering the fact that it's the same repeated stuff probably.

[Lee Chiang Po]

This time we ask people if they can provide youtube clips for:

- "internal" roundhouse kick,
- "internal" hip throw,
- "internal" arm bar,
- ...

I do think if you can prove that you can do "internal" hip throw, you should write a book about it.

Some people can not grasp a concept, so they come to such adverse conclusions. You remind me of a fellow I met once. I was leaving work at a chinese restraunt in New Orleans, headed home when I was short cutting down an ally, and I heard this sound of someone yelling. It was more of a loud chirp than a yell. I sort of peeked over the wood fence and there was this asian fellow standing there facing a bird cage. There was a canary or some such in the cage and the fellow was standing there real still and quite, and then he would suddenly make this loud chirp and sort of act like he was shooting a force from the fingers at the poor bird. I watched him for a while before saying anything, but eventually asked him what he was doing. He explained that he was trying to develop his chi to the point to where he could actually kill the little bird without touching it. I did not fully understand so I asked again and he explained again that he was trying to shoot the bird to death with chi that he was projecting out from the tips of his fingers. I asked him if he had ever been able to do it and he said no. I ask him how long he had been trying to do it and he said, about 25 years.
It was explained to me at the age of 10, and I had full grasp of it almost immediately. It is not difficult to understand if you are open to it, but as long as you keep a closed mind the concept can not mean much to you. Internal gung fu is nothing more than the ability to manipulate and focus your own energy, which is indeed internal. You can not project it beyond the fingertips. It remains internal. You can not move without energy. You just learn to focus this same energy into one focal point rather than having it flowing outward in every direction at once. You see the utube flicks where a fellow is standing with his feet 4 feet apart, both hands in play, all muscles flexed and the entire body rather stiff. His chi is flowing in all directions at one time and burning up rapidly. He has no control of it and more likely no grasp of the concept at all.

[TenTigers]

why torture a cute little birdie?
He should've practiced on spiders or something icky.
That's just wrong.

[Lucas]

thats like old samurai stories of masters incappacitating small birds with a kiai.