Internal vs. External

[YouKnowWho]

you do bend your back forward and downward

such as right before cross step single whip, xie xing dan bian

there are a lot throws in tai ji

--

Not sure which Taiji move that you are talking about. Could you come up a youtube clip?

[YouKnowWho]

Taiji has no legs. Very few "leg moves" can be found in Taiji and that's the problem.

This guy had SC training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9H4sa2aGUc

[YouKnowWho]

I understand your frustration, although I think it has more to do with people mis-interpreting many of the moves along the lines of the first clip. Look at the difference a simple re-evaluation of application can make.

I think the main reason that Taiji guys don't like to use their legs because there are few single leg balance training in Taiji. Leg moves such as hook, break, sweep, scoop, cut, lift, twist, spring, sharpen, ... are all missing in Taiji.

[bawang]

chen style taijiquan has total of two sweeps. and theres two takedowns in that 108 longfist that nobody does. everything else is punching

the boxing techniques in tai chi is very beautiful but its not wrestling

[YouKnowWho]

The throwing "intend" such as

- touching head to the knee (for hip throw),
- lift leg straight up in the air (for leg lift),
- spin body to the maximum (for cracking throw),
- Twist upper body to one direction while twist lower body to the opposite direction (for foot sweep),

are not emphasised in the Taiji basic training.

[lkfmdc]

This will offend many, but everyone knows who I am by now

If your tai chi doesn't have sweeps, trips, throws, takedowns then you have defective tai chi, ie you learned it wrong or you are just short sighted

I am actually of the opinion Tai Chi is best understood as a wrestling art, not a striking one

[bawang]

wrestling is important but its not in tai chi period. people try to "extrapolate" from forms because they refuse to admit theres things missing

[lkfmdc]

wrestling is important but its not in tai chi period. people try to "extrapolate" from forms because they refuse to admit theres things missing

anything you expect to do in fighting is "extrapolated" from forms practice, it's why really you can dump forms entirely

what is push hands? really? listening, redirecting, yielding, pulling, pushing, these are wrestling skills...

[bawang]

anything you expect to do in fighting is "extrapolated" from forms practice, it's why really you can dump forms entirely

when white people stop eating mashed potatoes i will stop doing forms

[lkfmdc]

- touching head to the knee (for hip throw),

some advocate "leg blocking" so any turn with a bow stance is this throw... we have this in Lama and CLF

- lift leg straight up in the air (for leg lift),

any kick is a sweep, is a throw, etc... some tai chi has been "made dumb" but the movements are in some forms

- spin body to the maximum (for cracking throw),

again, some traditions have, others are watered down

are not emphasised in the Taiji basic training.

not WHAT, but HOW

most practical fighting skill is not emphasised in current TCMA practice

[lkfmdc]

when white people stop eating mashed potatoes i will stop doing forms

forms and mashed patatoes both make you slow and serve little purpse

I don't do either

[bawang]

tai chi guys shouldnt worry about wrestling when most cant even make a proper fist. not joking. they make an o with the hand.

forms and mashed patatoes both make you slow and serve little purpse

I don't do either

if people admit the truth there is purpose. the form is a dance.

[YouKnowWho]

you learned it wrong ...

My teacher always love to say:

- It's not your problem.
- It's not your teacher's problem.
- It's not even your teacher's teacher's problem.
- It could be the style founder's problem.

[lkfmdc]

My teacher always love to say:

- It's not your problem.
- It's not your teacher's problem.
- It's not even your teacher's teacher's problem.
- It could be the style founder's problem.

personally, I have seen stuff that started out fine, get worse over time

NOT just dumb white people, plenty of dumb Chinese people (and Malaysians, and dumb Japanese, dumb Koreans, etc etc)

[YouKnowWho]

personally, I have seen stuff that started out fine, get worse over time.

That's one possibility. You may be more optimistic than I do. I can only judge a style from the forms and not from the drills that style has. The drills may come from "cross training".