Do Kung Fu guys spend too much time trying to look like Kung Fu guys?

[donjitsu2]

My point of view is this, Kung Fu in and of itself is more a philosophy or intangible than anything. Sure you have your systems and they have their flavor, but what two individuals have you ever seen use the same techniques, in the same manner, in the exact same way? You never have, and you never will.

You sir, have hit the metaphorical nail on the head.

[Darthlawyer]

Aren't most forms performed in an exaggerated way for training purposes. I mean, any of my forms that have a reverse punch that's been chambered at the waist level: I've always been told that that is trained that way for speed. I don't know many people who would actually throw a fully chambered punch in a fight: you'd lose a lot of time. Or another example, many CMA oriented schools have a "kick high in training (to develop power, balance, flexibility) but kick low in a fight" theory. As a result, the forms aren't going to be a fair representation of how they will appear in sparring/fighting.
I think that most people in America who get into Kung Fu started their interests because of the elaborate Wu-shueey moves they've seen in movies. I doubt that actual kung fu fights EVER looked that way, except maybe if people left kung fu training after being taught only forms but no applications and then pretended to be a master of whatever style they were using.

[Shaolinlueb]

hell yeah i do. and when i actually look like donnie yen from SPL or Flash point its going to be amazing!!!!

/sarcasm.

at times i wish it was like in the movies. then i turned 15.....

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I guess one of my other points is that most Kung Fu systems have a core of basics that are practiced from beginner to advanced levels. As one progresses and gets better these basics go from beginner to advance as well, because the backfist or jab you throw with three months experience is no where near the same level as the one you throw with three years experience, or whatever technique you are practicing.

However if you spend years on some exotic technique that is not very applicable and you spend all this time trying to master it you may be better off training something simple and effective into something instictive and reactionary. My personal Kung Fu comes from basics and techniques that I know have worked and I have used in sparring and fights. Than I drill those techniques over and over under different pressure tested situations.

[CYMac]

In a nutshell, do you feel most CMA practioners worry too much about so called chinese flavor and making their fighting resemble Kung Fu techniques found in forms or other areas as apposed to what many fights or sparring matches end up looking like (glorified kickboxing, of course).

In all seriousness I respect very much those that break down techniques from forms, basics, and two man training and apply or at least attempt to apply to a sparring or full contact match. But do you feel it is more beneficial from a fighting aspect to learn simpler basic tecniques that are easier to use? Thoughts?

IMO...

My kungfu were used in fights and competitive sparrings before and they can be used naturally like it is in the forms and drills. The problem with people turning the kungfu into a kickboxing type of fighting is because they lack the training only. There is a term I use which is "naturalizing your kungfu". If your kungfu movements are always done and practiced, you are so natural to them already and you feel awkward just to get in a kickboxing stance too! for me, I do fight with kungfu stances and they feel very natural to me to get on them naturally without thinking. It will become natural to you when you do more practice.

Think about if a baby have not seen boxing on TV or movies since they are born, when they grow up, they only do kungfu forms and trainings. AT age of 18, their natural way of fighting will be like very "kungfu looking". If you tell them to go in those "non kungfu looking" boxing style of fighting, they feel very awkward and hard to imitate as well.

Therefore, in my experience, I know how hard it is to naturalize the kungfu movements, but it is not impossible, you just need to have a good master, a good heart in training and NOT watching UFC all the time...

Kungfu is about practicing yourself more and more, not about watching others and trying it out yourself here and there. So it's not a buffet... haha!

[Iron_Eagle_76]

IMO...

My kungfu were used in fights and competitive sparrings before and they can be used naturally like it is in the forms and drills. The problem with people turning the kungfu into a kickboxing type of fighting is because they lack the training only. There is a term I use which is "naturalizing your kungfu". If your kungfu movements are always done and practiced, you are so natural to them already and you feel awkward just to get in a kickboxing stance too! for me, I do fight with kungfu stances and they feel very natural to me to get on them naturally without thinking. It will become natural to you when you do more practice.

Think about if a baby have not seen boxing on TV or movies since they are born, when they grow up, they only do kungfu forms and trainings. AT age of 18, their natural way of fighting will be like very "kungfu looking". If you tell them to go in those "non kungfu looking" boxing style of fighting, they feel very awkward and hard to imitate as well.

Therefore, in my experience, I know how hard it is to naturalize the kungfu movements, but it is not impossible, you just need to have a good master, a good heart in training and NOT watching UFC all the time...

Kungfu is about practicing yourself more and more, not about watching others and trying it out yourself here and there. So it's not a buffet... haha!

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

[CYMac]

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

That is apparently why "virtues" should be the first class in all kungfu courses and trainings. If not, the world will be flooded by beast and not human possesed with power and force only but not politeness and virtues.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That is apparently why "virtues" should be the first class in all kungfu courses and trainings. If not, the world will be flooded by beast and not human possesed with power and force only but not politeness and virtues.

Humility wouldn't kill you dude.

[David Jamieson]

That is apparently why "virtues" should be the first class in all kungfu courses and trainings. If not, the world will be flooded by beast and not human possesed with power and force only but not politeness and virtues.

Kung Fu forms are gross movements. they are meant to be changed to function within context to combat. That's why textbook technique pretty much never works in real application.

Real Kung Fu development comes when you put the forms behind you. They then become tools to teach others and perhaps maybe you practice them for posterity o to stay sharp in your instruction to others.

Anything that is to be mastered must ultimately be expressed by the individual at some point on the path and must be expressed naturally and with all required attributes.

Sitting must be done correctly, speaking, walking, moving, eating, fighting, showing courtesy to others, working, playing and fighting.

If you want to just fight. With Kung Fu, you risk leaving out all the other stuff.
All the other stuff is what a lot of people outside of Kung Fu training just hate it seems.

Some people even feel it is their duty in life to indicate how Lion dance has nothing to do with fighting. It's funny, because Kung Fu practitioners already know this.

We also know that forms aren't directly for fighting and neither is meditation and that offering incense has no fighting techniques, showing respect to the teacher by bowing and being respectful isn't fighting and learning about energies that propel us isn't fighting.

I find it odd how people outside feel insistent that they must educate everyone about what it is they are doing wrong despite their not really have ever taken on a curriculum of Kung Fu and without understanding the meaning of Kung Fu.

They become frustrated with all the invisible stuff which in turn is actually their own commitment, their own learning, their own supplication to the knowledge in order to gain a firmer grasp of it.

Now, that isn't to say there aren't people who perhaps have seen one too many movies, but the same could be said of the so called mma crowd as well.

Kung Fu guys often operate on a crouching tiger/hidden dragon kind of mentality, whilst the mma set prefers the Fast and the Furious kind of mentality.

It's a mentality thing for sure though, in most respects. What's really nice is when you get to mosh all that together so you have Kung Fu, boxing, wrestling, swordplay, exercise, yoga, zen, and all that integrated into your entire life style.

that's when it really comes together.

for me anyway

[Iron_Eagle_76]

That is apparently why "virtues" should be the first class in all kungfu courses and trainings. If not, the world will be flooded by beast and not human possesed with power and force only but not politeness and virtues.

LMAO, sorry if I don't take the advice of a supposed "Celestial Taoist Exorcist Master". Perhaps you should practice some of these "virtues" you speak about when you are charging idiots who believe in your bogus exorcisms (I still find this hard to believe) to get rid of make believe demons that you and other idiot religious sects make up to prey on the weak and feeble minded.

Nothing in the world cracks me up more than idiot "tradionalists" spouting off about virtues while at the same time ripping off people who don't know any better.

[CYMac]

People got too much movies and comics in their mind, sometimes I really wonder how many really do kungfu. I can't even name much kungfu movies and I don't really watch movies much because my life is quite filled all the time~!

For me, kungfu is something very natural, and the movements of course are not used "fully" like it is in the forms because we are not robots or characters in the video games. BUT, you can really use the stance, punches and all that in your fighting with no problem if you are trained right instead of having a teacher telling you to "use it like boxing style". Anyway, it's really something hard to debate or talk about anyway unless there is real person to person contact demonstration or kungfu discussion, without a pair of hands, there is no way to show it.

So.. it's just IMO there.

[CYMac]

LMAO, sorry if I don't take the advice of a supposed "Celestial Taoist Exorcist Master". Perhaps you should practice some of these "virtues" you speak about when you are charging idiots who believe in your bogus exorcisms (I still find this hard to believe) to get rid of make believe demons that you and other idiot religious sects make up to prey on the weak and feeble minded.

Nothing in the world cracks me up more than idiot "tradionalists" spouting off about virtues while at the same time ripping off people who don't know any better.

You have not tried a durian and so you say it stinks. Those who ate it, say it's yummy. If one can speak without trying out the real thing, telling people how awful durian taste just by it's look, they are just naive, idiotic and rude as well. I see no virtues in those people because they are simply just people who talk without real experience, and it all reflects on your personal life, character and also your kungfu as well. Standing two feets on a solid ground is important, it will bring your life more happiness, and you will have less "fire" to blow off.

Again, you have talked in a manner that abuse my profession, it's rude, if you have not noticed it. I am not saying that I care, but I just want to point that out to you just in case you don't realize it. You have not tried the durian, don't judge by it's look, there are many who ate it before and say it's yummy already, don't be so naive and laugh at it like a child.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

You have not tried a durian and so you say it stinks. Those who ate it, say it's yummy. If one can speak without trying out the real thing, telling people how awful durian taste just by it's look, they are just naive, idiotic and rude as well. I see no virtues in those people because they are simply just people who talk without real experience, and it all reflects on your personal life, character and also your kungfu as well. Standing two feets on a solid ground is important, it will bring your life more happiness, and you will have less "fire" to blow off.

Again, you have talked in a manner that abuse my profession, it's rude, if you have not noticed it. I am not saying that I care, but I just want to point that out to you just in case you don't realize it. You have not tried the durian, don't judge by it's look, there are many who ate it before and say it's yummy already, don't be so naive and laugh at it like a child.

[CYMac]

It's okay if you don't get my point. But watching too much movies really kills in the path of kungfu. It will be a very bad mindset to have if you are washed by kungfu movies in the 80's too, too much "traditional schools" (movie style) kind of thinking. But also, the fighting and stuff is bad as well. If you watch too much modern kungfu related movies, you also get into a fantasy land more. So it's really not a good thing.. too much mind obstacles.

Taste a durian before you comment on it's taste, or else, that is no different from false speech or rumor, lying, whatever.

IMO.

[David Jamieson]

I am not with you on the Durian man. lol.

I am not worried about what it looks like, but you must admit it smells like vomit +dead corpse but is remarkably sweet and juicy.

Just hold your nose when you eat it.

I'd rather have an apple quite frankly.