Learning Chinese for Kung Fu?

[ShaolinDan]

So, after performing at a cultural event that was entirely in Chinese, the idea has come up for me and some of my training brothers/sisters of trying to learn at least some Chinese.

I know a number of people on this forum have learned varying amounts of Chinese.

Wondering what your opinions are on the payoff vs. costs(temporal mostly I imagine) of learning Chinese for the sake of your kung fu training. (I know it has plenty[and growing] of market value in the business world right now.)

Is it worth the time and effort, or would it be better to spend it other ways?
Do you aim for conversational ability, or just learn useful phrases?
Is it worth it to learn characters, or better just to learn the spoken language?

Obviously just opinion, but I'd like to hear what people have to say. Thanks.

[GeneChing]

Is it worth the time and effort, or would it be better to spend it other ways?
Do you aim for conversational ability, or just learn useful phrases?
Is it worth it to learn characters, or better just to learn the spoken language?

It is always worth it to learn new languages. ALWAYS. Don't fuss about how to learn it. Just start studying it. If don't get very far, at least you learned you have little aptitude for language.

In preparation for my Fencing Provost-at-Arms exam, I had to become familiar with French, Italian and German. I can't speak enough of any of those languages now to even order in a restaurant, but several of my textbooks were in those languages, so I had to get a working understanding. All the fencing terminology was in French or Italian.

Just do it. Don't hesitate. It's not martial to hesitate.

*And this is from someone who doesn't really speak Chinese*

[lkfmdc]

I will say this (these?)

1. Learning standard chinese in an academic situation may not prepare you for kung fu talk

2. Learning kung fu talk probably won't prepare you for regular conversations

Dialects and regional variations can be a bitch

CTS spoke Toisanese, I speak a more standard Cantonese, had trouble talking to a guy from Jungsaan

My Mandarin has cantonese accent and Shanghai variations/vocab (long story), it was great in Shanghai, with Taiwanese we frequently kept saying "what?"

My Shanghai is actually Ningpo... I sound like Chiang Kai Shek

It's a maze, a trecherous maze

[Lucas]

havnt read the thread, not gonna, pimsleur approach is awesome for any language

[wenshu]

yes. there are 4 tones in pu tong hua. there are accents everywhere you go.

5 if you count neutral.

The trouble for native English speakers really comes into play with combinations.
2nd followed by 3rd always throws me off.

I will say this (these?)

1. Learning standard chinese in an academic situation may not prepare you for kung fu talk

2. Learning kung fu talk probably won't prepare you for regular conversations



It's a maze, a trecherous maze

In most cases it won't prepare you for talking period.

A common complaint among native English speaking foreign exchange students who go to China is how utterly useless what they learned in the classroom and from textbooks was.

With Chinese especially, you have to go native. Learning kung fu terminology in it's specific context will do more to prepare you for everyday conversation than just learning word order and vocabulary.

Back to the original question, yes it absolutely is worth it. Kung fu should be valued most for it's cultural heritage (I am sure we'll have more time to debate it's combat effectiveness, certainly a novel topic in itself. . .) and language is an indispensable part of understanding culture. Not to mention the benefits adult language acquisition has for memory and general long term brain health.

[SPJ]

just pick 2 chinese pop songs

1. tong hua

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbcHJ...eature=related

2. lao shu ai da mi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWwum...eature=related

just sing along

their pronunciations are very standard mandarin.

you would pick up some good and basic pronouciations at least.

yes. accents are nightmares for everyone.

my high school CMA teachers spoke chinese with heavy shan dong accents. I learned mantis, tong bei from them. even within shan dong, they have various accents, too.

---

[Drake]

I will say this (these?)

1. Learning standard chinese in an academic situation may not prepare you for kung fu talk

2. Learning kung fu talk probably won't prepare you for regular conversations

Dialects and regional variations can be a bitch

CTS spoke Toisanese, I speak a more standard Cantonese, had trouble talking to a guy from Jungsaan

My Mandarin has cantonese accent and Shanghai variations/vocab (long story), it was great in Shanghai, with Taiwanese we frequently kept saying "what?"

My Shanghai is actually Ningpo... I sound like Chiang Kai Shek

It's a maze, a trecherous maze

I'm playing it safe and just using the Commie official version.

[GeneChing]

When did my A&P cadaver work, I learned a little Latin. Of course, I didn't get very far. Couldn't order in a restaurant. Nevertheless it's still very useful because of the root words. Chinese is like that too. Maybe you'll hate it and convert to MMA. Maybe you'll love it so much that you study it deeply and wind up living in China for the rest of your life, ShaolinDan. Study the language. Go dare. Just don't learn Chinese for the sake of your kung fu training. Learn both to go out in the world and apply it to help those in need. Kung fu can be a gateway to a whole other world. That's one of the traditional names for kung fu systems is men (aka moon 門 'gate'). That's your free starter Mandarin lesson for today. First one's free!

It's a maze, a trecherous maze

So true, oh master of photocrap, so true!

[SteveLau]

It is always worth it to learn new languages.

To be fair first, I speak and write Chinese. Learning a language is always difficult if one is new to it completely. And Chinese is a difficult to learn language. Its written part is comprised of strokes. Its spoken part has dozens of dialects. So in MYPV, there is no need to learn Chinese for Kung Fu training. There are tons of written and spoken records of Kung Fu available in the public domain , which proves my point. I do not mean we should seek training only from records. Serious Kung Fu students should always obtain training from a life instructor. But can the instructor express himself well in non-Chinese language that his student can understand well? That's the question.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[taai gihk yahn]

it's a great idea in theory; the only thing about learning a language, IMPE, is that unless you have an actual reason for using it, it can be very difficult to make it functional; for example, I studied German formally for four years in HS, and then minored in it in college - but I was never really that functional with it, because I never had much reason to use it; OTOH, my Cantonese, was acquired haphazardly, and without any formal instruction - but because I had to use it to speak to my late sifu, I was reasonably functional in the various contexts that arose relative to the time I spent with him, and if I had to, I could probably communicate reasonably well with it 20 yrs. later;

my point is that if you are going to take time to learn Chinese, you need to have some sort of context in which you have to use it; for example, I don't know where you live, but if there is a Chinese cultural center near you, that might be a good place to try to spend some time engaging in "day to day" chit chat with native speakers (at the very least, make it a point to only speak Chinese if you go into a Chinese restaurant);

good luck and enjoy yourself!

P.S. - I would do all of the above: learn phrases, learn vocabulary so as to make your own sentances, and learn as many characters as possible - actually, you could use the names of techniques as a springboard - learn the characters / pronunciation for them, and you'd be surprised how useful that info can be even in everyday usage...

[SPJ]

http://video.sina.com.cn/m/zb3d_61310209.html

if you may pick up another lingo, it would help you go a long way to understand some of the culture aspect

--

the link is so funny, if you understand some chinese

you may pick up the story line that 3 imperial guards were to take out the flying pig or member of tian di hui or heaven earth association, it was anti qing organisation.

so the donkey, the bull and the dog were out there to search and destroy--

the flying pig was so clumsy that he could not smash the ****roach

he tripped on his apple and toppled the whole inn in the end.

--

laugh so hard.

[Drake]

Or buy the Pimsleur audio CDS and snag an Oxford Mandarin Dictionary.

Also, try getting a book on writing as well. The stroke directions and sequences are actually a bit important.

My Chinese still looks like a 5-year old having a seizure while drawing random shapes.

[wenshu]

www.skritter.com

[mooyingmantis]

ShaolinDan,

What are your goals?

Do you want to pronounce common kung fu words (i.e. jian, shuang, chuan) properly?

Do you want to be able to read a Chinese text?

Do you want to be able to speak to a Chinese person?

If you want to learn the proper pronunciation of a Chinese word http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindic...page=translate is all you need:
1. Type an English word in the box and click English ==> Chinese.
2. Look below for proper character and click on the speaker emblem and it will pronounce the word for you.

Learning to read a text will require:
1. Learning to use a Chinese dictionary and mastering the Chinese radicals.
2. Learning Chinese grammar and syntax.

Learning to speak conversationally will require:
1. A good online program (very cheap) or an aid such as Rosetta Stone (very expensive).
2. Constant practice with friends.

WARNING: Mandarin Chinese is the "standard" form of Chinese. However, Beijing Mandarin and Taiwan Mandarin are quite different in pronunciation. You can study Chinese for years with a teacher, but still only learn to pronounce the words in the way that will be understood in one area of China. For example, "elbow" is pronounced joo or joe depending on where you are in China.

So decide on what your goal is, then go from there.

[Drake]

Rosetta Stone is complete and utter crap. Unless you want to spend twelve hours, only to be able to say "the boy is under the plane", "the horses run", or "12 blue balls".

Within five minutes of Pimsleur (NO, this is not a friggin' plug. It really does work.) you can already say "Excuse me, may I ask...", and within 20 minutes, say "I cannot speak Mandarin very well.", "Do you speak English?" along with other, practical phrases. Within 5 hours, you'll be asking for directions, places to eat, drink, ask for tea, ask for water, using conjunctions, and understanding other nuances of the language.

I've used both. I say Pimsleur, along with some texts to work on writing and reading.