Learning Chinese for Kung Fu?

[lkfmdc]

I will say this (these?)

1. Learning standard chinese in an academic situation may not prepare you for kung fu talk

2. Learning kung fu talk probably won't prepare you for regular conversations

Dialects and regional variations can be a bitch

CTS spoke Toisanese, I speak a more standard Cantonese, had trouble talking to a guy from Jungsaan

My Mandarin has cantonese accent and Shanghai variations/vocab (long story), it was great in Shanghai, with Taiwanese we frequently kept saying "what?"

My Shanghai is actually Ningpo... I sound like Chiang Kai Shek

It's a maze, a trecherous maze

[Lucas]

havnt read the thread, not gonna, pimsleur approach is awesome for any language

[wenshu]

yes. there are 4 tones in pu tong hua. there are accents everywhere you go.

5 if you count neutral.

The trouble for native English speakers really comes into play with combinations.
2nd followed by 3rd always throws me off.

I will say this (these?)

1. Learning standard chinese in an academic situation may not prepare you for kung fu talk

2. Learning kung fu talk probably won't prepare you for regular conversations



It's a maze, a trecherous maze

In most cases it won't prepare you for talking period.

A common complaint among native English speaking foreign exchange students who go to China is how utterly useless what they learned in the classroom and from textbooks was.

With Chinese especially, you have to go native. Learning kung fu terminology in it's specific context will do more to prepare you for everyday conversation than just learning word order and vocabulary.

Back to the original question, yes it absolutely is worth it. Kung fu should be valued most for it's cultural heritage (I am sure we'll have more time to debate it's combat effectiveness, certainly a novel topic in itself. . .) and language is an indispensable part of understanding culture. Not to mention the benefits adult language acquisition has for memory and general long term brain health.

[SPJ]

just pick 2 chinese pop songs

1. tong hua

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbcHJ...eature=related

2. lao shu ai da mi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWwum...eature=related

just sing along

their pronunciations are very standard mandarin.

you would pick up some good and basic pronouciations at least.

yes. accents are nightmares for everyone.

my high school CMA teachers spoke chinese with heavy shan dong accents. I learned mantis, tong bei from them. even within shan dong, they have various accents, too.

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[David Jamieson]

Language Acquisition Fail.

nay nay. You are failing at understanding the principles of learning, in particular, adult learning which is entirely different than the regular schooling that we give our kids and adolescents.

also, for those of you struggling to break free of learning styles you think are hard and fast I would submit to you that Helen Keller, a blind deaf mute, learned to read, write and speak in the english language and never heard a single thing in her life, not even the song of a bird.

so, before you start throwing out reflective statements such as "fail" about others, do a little homework.

signed Haywood Jablome

[wenshu]

nay nay. You are failing at understanding the principles of learning, in particular, adult learning which is entirely different than the regular schooling that we give our kids and adolescents.

also, for those of you struggling to break free of learning styles you think are hard and fast I would submit to you that Helen Keller, a blind deaf mute, learned to read, write and speak in the english language and never heard a single thing in her life, not even the song of a bird.

so, before you start throwing out reflective statements such as "fail" about others, do a little homework.

signed Haywood Jablome

Recrimination fail.

Homework!? Homework?! I am Homework!

Seriously Hellen Keller?

It took Anne Sullivan 5 years working 24 hours a day to teach her to recognize the word for water.

For the 99.999999999% of adult humans who want to acquire a second language, a private tutor for 3 hours a week let alone a full time companion is a bit cost prohibitive.

Do some cursory research on adult second language acquisition before you reply, but if you really want to argue the possibility of becoming conversant in Mandarin without exposure to everyday usage, feel free.

[Drake]

I will say this (these?)

1. Learning standard chinese in an academic situation may not prepare you for kung fu talk

2. Learning kung fu talk probably won't prepare you for regular conversations

Dialects and regional variations can be a bitch

CTS spoke Toisanese, I speak a more standard Cantonese, had trouble talking to a guy from Jungsaan

My Mandarin has cantonese accent and Shanghai variations/vocab (long story), it was great in Shanghai, with Taiwanese we frequently kept saying "what?"

My Shanghai is actually Ningpo... I sound like Chiang Kai Shek

It's a maze, a trecherous maze

I'm playing it safe and just using the Commie official version.

[GeneChing]

When did my A&P cadaver work, I learned a little Latin. Of course, I didn't get very far. Couldn't order in a restaurant. Nevertheless it's still very useful because of the root words. Chinese is like that too. Maybe you'll hate it and convert to MMA. Maybe you'll love it so much that you study it deeply and wind up living in China for the rest of your life, ShaolinDan. Study the language. Go dare. Just don't learn Chinese for the sake of your kung fu training. Learn both to go out in the world and apply it to help those in need. Kung fu can be a gateway to a whole other world. That's one of the traditional names for kung fu systems is men (aka moon 門 'gate'). That's your free starter Mandarin lesson for today. First one's free!

It's a maze, a trecherous maze

So true, oh master of photocrap, so true!

[David Jamieson]

Recrimination fail.

Homework!? Homework?! I am Homework!

Seriously Hellen Keller?

It took Anne Sullivan 5 years working 24 hours a day to teach her to recognize the word for water.

For the 99.999999999% of adult humans who want to acquire a second language, a private tutor for 3 hours a week let alone a full time companion is a bit cost prohibitive.

Do some cursory research on adult second language acquisition before you reply, but if you really want to argue the possibility of becoming conversant in Mandarin without exposure to everyday usage, feel free.

mountains out of mole hills is what you are making.
puffy chest. lol

[ShaolinDan]

Thanks everyone for your great responses. Some very helpful hints.

My teacher is not Chinese, so learning his dialect is not an issue for me.

My immediate goals were/are to learn some basic Mandarin, not conversational, just able to say something polite at cultural events, or to help me get around in China (I anticipate a trip within the next 2 years). Also I would like to have better pronunciation and understanding of all the terms I've come across in my training.

Whether I take it further than that will depend on how much I enjoy the study and the traveling.

[zhugeliang]

ShaolinDan,

I train in wushu and teach Chinese on weekends. Mandarin Chinese would be your best choice since it is the official language in mainland China. In fact when I go to Houston and talk to the Shaolin school coaches they speak very standard Mandarin. However you will find some older Chinese who tend to prefer a dialect like Cantonese or Shanghaiese (like one of my wushu coaches) etc, but for the most part Mandarin dominates.

Something else too, you might want to try to google Confucius Institute and see if they offer classes in your area. Also try the local Asian American center.

I strongly recommend the Chinese Forums as your starting point in starting your Chinese studies. There is even a section for those who are just starting out in learning Chinese and have questions in how to start and go about it. Here is the website:


http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/index

Hope it helps.

[bawang]

the pronouncement of words is not important, its the tone

[David Jamieson]

the pronouncement of words is not important, its the tone

Most of communication is not words.
even when we speak, the words are the least part of the communication.

[omarthefish]

wenshu:

David Jamieson is on the mark: language acquasition...FAIL!

Learning a language as an adult is certainly different from how you learn as a child but the idea that you are really handicapped on the issue because of brain structure and whatnot is complete and utter bull****. It's just the same as learning kung fu: hours in = skill out. Show me an adult who has spent as many hours in 5 years learning Chinese as a 5 year old Chinese child has in his entire life and I will show you an adult with better Chinese than that child. Already seen several.

Immersion is a must but it's not magic. It's just about hour/day of actual practice. I have at least 1 or 2 kids in every class of 55 or so students that speaks English well enough to chat with me and that's just in middle school. .

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Next issue:

like Gene said, it's not a binary proposition. Learn as much as you are able to. The largest single obstacle to learning Chinese is the mental block from thinking you have to actually learn Chinese. I speak from experience. I only took Chinese at first because I wanted to study acupuncture and most TCM schools require a semester or two. Well I ended up flunking organic chemistry and couldn't really handle the math required for my BS in physiology so that never happened but I kept up with the Chinese and one day...about 10 years later....I realized I could actually speak the language, not in a "get by" way but actually read and speak fluently.

I am 100% confident that if I set that out as my goal at the beginning I would have given up long ago. I just kept at it because it was kind of cool and eventually I got really good at it. . . kind of like kung fu that way eh?

[SPJ]

the pronouncement of words is not important, its the tone

yes. at first, you learn the pronunciation.

then you learn the different tones

then you learn the characters.

why

b/c different tones with the same sound may mean different words.

b/c many words/characters may have the same sound/tone.

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just pick up a few words everyday, years later, it will be a huge vocab you learned.

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