Why do you want to fight?

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's one thing, like the Filipino arts, to encourage the weapon before the hand but it's another to suggest they do not cross over well imo.

Wing Chun centre and straight line concepts come from the pole, as an example, and side body punching structures are drilled with the pole, so how do you even know that you're doing it correctly if you have never trained such pole methods?

In fact, the reason our weaponry is in the system is to back up all our hand work not the other way round, although I understand that this has become the way for us all to learn these days. Which is good too. Safer!

Man, I didn't know what a reverse punch was in Karate until I saw Kanazawa with a Jo staff

The biomechanics used in delivering a thrust with the pole are far different than that with a fist.
Sorry.
And the Jo staff lends itself better to the oi or kizami tzuki then it does to the gyaku-tzuki, this according to the very same Kanazawa and HIS Sensei.


Just saying...

[Vajramusti]

The biomechanics used in delivering a thrust with the pole are far different than that with a fist.
Sorry.

((FWIW, IMO yes and no))joy


And the Jo staff lends itself better to the oi or kizami tzuki then it does to the gyaku-tzuki, this according to the very same Kanazawa and HIS Sensei.


Just saying...

((Kanazawa was/is good. He also started doing taichi to become softer, if I recall correctly))

joy chaudhuri

[JamesC]

I'm gonna 3rd that. Dude is a class act.

[Frost]

I know this may be a boring subject to most who post here, but I thought I would ask why so many of you feel like fighting is the goal of your Wing Chun training?

Whether it's street fighting or competitive fighting, why do you want to take Wing Chun into that domain in the first place? Who told you that fighting others (and your own family!) is what training Wing Chun is about? How much do you get charged to learn how to beat your brothers and sisters?

And I have to end by asking if you would teach your own children the same?

So what is the goal of your wing chun? Seriously why are you training a martial art what do you hope to get out of it?

Because if its fitness, strength, longevity, flexibility meditation etc there are better ways to go about it that martial arts, ways specifically designed with that express purpose in mind

PS anyone else notice the distinct lack of response by the wing chun peeps on this board

[Buddha_Fist]

PS anyone else notice the distinct lack of response by the wing chun peeps on this board

Maybe because the discussion is a waste of time?

Of course is fighting the primary goal of a martial art. Benefits like physical fitness, stress relieve, etc. are simply byproducts and can also be achieved by a wide range of other activities. The motivation for training a martial art varies from one person to another, but the goal is typically to learn to defend themselves, to learn how to fight.

Walking around in a pajama, smoking incense, talking New Age non-sense, and not being able to fight is not Ving Tsun! Ving Tsun is a great Chinese boxing method, and it's a shame when it's watered down losing its focus.

[Lucas]

PS anyone else notice the distinct lack of response by the wing chun peeps on this board

I AM WING CHUN!

[GlennR]

PS anyone else notice the distinct lack of response by the wing chun peeps on this board[/QUOTE]


Didnt know it was mandatory to respond.
Incidentally, notice the non wing chun peeps beating their chests on this board>

[GlennR]

I know this may be a boring subject to most who post here, but I thought I would ask why so many of you feel like fighting is the goal of your Wing Chun training?

Whether it's street fighting or competitive fighting, why do you want to take Wing Chun into that domain in the first place? Who told you that fighting others (and your own family!) is what training Wing Chun is about? How much do you get charged to learn how to beat your brothers and sisters?

And I have to end by asking if you would teach your own children the same?

Wing chun-Martial Art-Fighting........ pretty obvious to me

Learning how to fight/martial art isnt about "how to beat your brothers and sisters", its about applying the skill set learnt in training, be it street or sport fighting.

And your comment regarding children shows that you feel there is a moral implication in "fighting". There isnt unless you assault someone.

Sorry, but in my book, if you are not focusing on the fighting its sporting masturbation

Try Yoga instead (its very good!)

GlennR

[Wayfaring]

I know this may be a boring subject to most who post here, but I thought I would ask why so many of you feel like fighting is the goal of your Wing Chun training?

Not necessarily the goal, but a vital part of the learning process.

Whether it's street fighting or competitive fighting, why do you want to take Wing Chun into that domain in the first place?

Because that is the baseline of quality control. It is universally measurable. It ensures you are not training in an art of folklore by people with questionable skillsets while being falsely sold on gaining skill in "self defense", which is dangerous.

Who told you that fighting others (and your own family!) is what training Wing Chun is about?

Nobody. It's an inherent part of learning a "martial" art. As a performance or recital is an inherent part of learning to dance - the quality of the show or performance proves out the learning program.

How much do you get charged to learn how to beat your brothers and sisters?

Varies with the school. Why are you worried about it?

And I have to end by asking if you would teach your own children the same?

Absolutely. It provides conditioning, self confidence, control over body and mind and reliable self defense.

With all that said, why is it exactly that you feel that fighting is NOT a vital part of your Wing Chun training?

How is it that you are able to determine whether or not what you are learning is viable in a threatening self defense situation?

How do you measure skill? Who can slap box with the fastest hands? Who pushes someone back from a line better? Who "looks" better? Who can "turn a steering wheel" better in chi sau?

If you have no measurable quality mark, how do you know that the art you are being taught is an "effective" martial art, as opposed to multi generations of folklore with a foreign Asian slant for appeal?

[imperialtaichi]

1. Our basic function is to survive; in some parts of the world, fighting is survival. Not so much in developed countries though.

2. Once our basic survival needs are met (such as food, shelter etc) we have time to do things for self development; be it religion, art, sport etc.

If you ask why do WC; then I ask why not?

Of course, if one builds a car, even purely for "collector" purpose, one would still want to take it out for a drive. It's not about fighting brothers or sisters, it's about expressing what one had worked very hard for. If anyone thinks that this is pointless, then we might as well give away all the non-essential items in our house and live like a hermit.

In the Western World, we have free choice. I choose Wing Chun.

Cheers,
John

[Eric_H]

Life is fighting, survival is fighting - why wouldn't one want to learn how to fight?

Honestly, the culture, self development and all that other stuff came about from the culture of fighting. Same as in the southern USA - they were once known for their politeness because of the frequency of duels. Out of necessity of not stepping on toes to cause conflict their culture changed. CMA isn't that much different in that respect.

Honestly LoneTiger, your position on this thread has made me lose some respect for you. I fight to hone my skills and detect weaknesses which I cannot find on my own, if you are not doing the same then I would question your qualifications as a martial artist.

[Phil Redmond]

Wing Chun was developed to fight the Manchu. It is a MARTIAL (war) art. I still don't believe that question was asked

[zuti car]

Question is ok, maybe just not precise as it suppose to be. I think the real question is -why people in Wing Chun have a need to compete ?Real fight , life and death situation fight is something completely different from any kind of competition , no mater how competition its selfe is brutal as long as it have the rules and life is not in danger that is not real fight .I was in the war , first line of fire , i was stabded with a knife in a bar fight so i can tell the difference . Nothing can prepapare people for real fight , except the real fight , and there is only one way to test how good is your art in reality but i would not recommend anyone to try that because there is extremly high probabilty that he will not survive testing .

[anerlich]

Wing Chun centre and straight line concepts come from the pole

According to whom? Based on what?

The canonical history has it that the pole was not introduced until WC had been going for a generation, so this argument is pretty dubious IMO.

The ability to defend oneself brings confidence. I do WC for defence, not because I like fist fighting, let alone fighting with weapons. I do enjoy wrestling and competitive BJJ rolling.

Some people like fighting. You may think that that makes them less evolved than you or something, but you might be wrong.

Most people end up finding other goals or benefits in the training besides the combative aspects, but just about anyone who takes it up likes the idea of being able to fight or at least defend themselves effectively. If they claim otherwise, they are fooling themselves but not anyone else.

How much do you get charged to learn how to beat your brothers and sisters?

I think that's commonly called a "loaded question".

How much do YOU charge students to teach them how to lose?

FWIW, I have two brothers who don't do WC, and no sisters. One's better at chess than me, but I kick his a$$ in first person shooter games.

And I stopped paying fees once I started teaching at my instructor's school.

And why learn Wing Chun to do that when there are so many other arts out there these days

I chose an instructor rather than an art for WC. IMO if you only practise one MA you're missing out, but I guess some are happy as underachievers

If you want to push an agenda or criticise other's motivations, Spencer, just do it, rather than disguise it poorly as a questionnaire.

PS anyone else notice the distinct lack of response by the wing chun peeps on this board

I don't think Spencer wants responses, he wants "fighters" to argue with.

[LoneTiger108]

It's kinda cool to see everyone digging into this thread. And no, I don't want fighters to argue with I'm truly interested in peoples mindsets and reasoning behind training for the fight, when that said fight may never arrive (unless you're into the competition vibe)

For the people who are ranting on about Wing Chun being a MARTIAL art, then read what I wrote about weaponry, as I believe that should be the focus of our trainig, especially at an advanced stage. My 'example' of Kanazawa Jo method highlights this, and please to throw Japanese terms at me is a joke. I was 11 or something when I met and trained with him, so leave my crap memory alone!!

So, I accept people criticisms of my approach to this debate, but I ask that you look at my questions and at least try to answer them before attacking me for an opinion. An opinion I might add, that is shared by many who don't post here.

And for you career guys out there, I don't charge anything to anyone because I do not teach/coach for a living and when I mention fighting 'brothers' I mean your kung fu brothers, not your blood relatives (doh!)

Maybe my question should have been different. But who here will be honest with me and say eacatly what feeling they get from fighting, or let's say sparring (which is totally different imho!) Again, I aint against it I'm trying to figure out why it's so highly regarded when Wing Chun as a system should be looking at its weaponry more. That's all.