Bag work

[David Jamieson]

In my opinion, heavy bag work is a critical element to anyone working on developing their pugilistic style.

Trouble is, many guys stand in front of the bag without a lot of knowing what to do and so they start launching into it, walking around, not timing their rounds and not structuring the work.

It's important to develop a method which in turn will develop your timing, co-ordination, speed (yes), power, structure and knowledge of use of high percentage techniques.

You can extrapolate from yoru kung fu, I do it all the time, however, I build the hand combos first.

Repetition and inculcation are excellent formats for learning in a tactile skill development path. And so, the combo and one offs are key to getting good and getting used to the force feedback as well.

If you're new to it, try this. Star with 1 minute rounds, work up to 2 and then to 3 and then to 5 and max out between 7-10 minute rounds.

R1- Jabs. Just jabs. move forward, backwards, in and out. left jab, then right with as much speed and power as you can muster, full out, go!

R2- Crosses, just crosses, same as above

R3 - Hooks, just hooks, same as above

R4- cannon, piston punches (like an uppercut, but a straight underhand punch to the body not lifting like an uppercut.

R5- Combo 1-simple - Jab/Cross just like above, over and over again

R5- Combo 2- 3x Jab/Cross/Hook just like above, keep moving keep your lead matched to your straight jab IE: left foot forward for right handed and right foot forward for southpaws baring in mind your power punch comes across the body from teh back.

R6- free style. Hit and move as many times as you can and as hard as you can.

R7- Kicks (this is for guys that use kicks) High percentage kicks are shovel(toe out jam)/knife(toe in jam or cut)/push and cut(round house slicing in arc downward)

R8-combo with kicks - try a jab cross with a cut following the cross off the same side. Use the jab cross to enter, then use the kick that will present itself according to your position. a cut kick is usually what you will find there whil push.shovel and knife tend to be more defensive.

R9- back to combos, give even time to 2x 3x and 4x combos. 2x=jab/cross 3x=jab/cross/hook or cannon/ 4x equal jab/cross/hook or cannon/ hook or cannon/ Kick take a pick.

R10- back to just jabs (seriously, these are bread and butter punches and should be developed a lot) Left, then right, fast, hard and constant.

Between rounds take 30 second only and rest. do not walk around, do not ballistic stretch REST and try to get your heart rate to drop and your breath to equalize, the faster you can get to a resting state and then back to a fighting state, the better. this is key to success in endurance as well.

If you do this and correct your structure as you punch (don't worry, you will realize you need to straighten that wrist after you bend it and hurt it because it was flimsy or poorly positioned) you will improve and develop at a fairly quick rate.

Try not to push the bag. Good punching with decent force and good structure tends to shock and bend the bag. It literally bounces instead of swings. Watch for that.

Keep your back straight and don't widen your stance so much that mobility becomes an issue.

this force feedback training will bring a lot to the table. Hit fast, Hit hard, Hit with the same intention as you would hit an opponent.

Don't cheat yourself!!!

feedback? Other methods? Anything to add?

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Why the hell would you waste your time doing something as useless as bag work when you could be working on forms!!

In all seriousness, great write up DJ. The only addition I would add is to work on footwork adamantly. Too often I see guys who stand stationary in front of the bag and wail away at it without moving around, without parrying, and without moving their torso. Cliche as it sounds, stick and move, stick and move.

Also, I look at bag work the same as I do sparring, pick your shots, make them count, and don't "blow your load" in 30 seconds. If you go off like a stick of dynamite you may be powerful for a very brief time but after the explosion you have nothing. Endurance is the key to good bag work and in turn good sparring.

This would be a good thread to post videos of people doing bag work for critique and learning purposes, if anyone wants to do that.

[JamesC]

I come from Muay Thai, so this is pretty much the same way i've always done it too.

One thing to always keep in mind is that you are fighting a mock opponent. This means you need to be visualizing as much as possible. You're throwing each punch at a specific opening on an opponent or as a counter to something they throw at you.

Keep your hands up, block, parry, and dodge as you would shadow boxing.

Also, pay attention to your form depending on what type of gloves you're wearing to hit the bag. I generally use 16oz gloves to hit with, but occasionally I will switch to regular bag gloves. Some people tend to get sloppy with their form when wearing 16oz gloves because some don't hit hard enough to worry about hurting their hands inside all the padding. Stick to your form.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

This is a two minute round at the end of my circuit training routine recorded a while back at my gym. Dropping my hands toward the end of the round

Anyway, I think this would be a good thread to share bag work or mitt work videos if anyone has them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y37Pj5MGxrw

[David Jamieson]

Good feedback.
Thanks guys.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The bag is used to develop your speed, power, endurance.
It allows you to work on singles or combos with RESISTANCE, which gives you immediate feedback on how techniques ACTUALLY flow when you hit something, as opposed to the BS of how they flow with they hit nothing.
I prefer the 2 min rounds with 30 sec breaks or 3 min with 30 second breaks.
You don't fight the bag, since the bag isn't fighting you.
What the bag presents to you is a "shape" and that shape is NOT an attacking or moving opponent, since the HB does NO attack and opponents to NOT move like the bag does.
What it can present is the opponent "in the corner", or the the opponent "covering up" or the opponent "crowding" us.
And we strike AND MOVE accordingly.

Great write up DJ.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

The bag is used to develop your speed, power, endurance.
It allows you to work on singles or combos with RESISTANCE, which gives you immediate feedback on how techniques ACTUALLY flow when you hit something, as opposed to the BS of how they flow with they hit nothing.
I prefer the 2 min rounds with 30 sec breaks or 3 min with 30 second breaks.
You don't fight the bag, since the bag isn't fighting you.
What the bag presents to you is a "shape" and that shape is NOT an attacking or moving opponent, since the HB does NO attack and opponents to NOT move like the bag does.
What it can present is the opponent "in the corner", or the the opponent "covering up" or the opponent "crowding" us.
And we strike AND MOVE accordingly.

Great write up DJ.

SJ, I'm curious, to you prefer a heavier style boxing bag or a Thai or Banana bag and why? What do you feel are the benefits and/or the differences in these two styles of bags?

[SPJ]

we use the heavy bag for kao practice also

Routine 11

shoulder kao

R12

forearm kao

R13

elbow kao

R14

chest kao

R15

back kao

R16

butt/hip kao

R17

knee kao

you may do frontal, lateral, crossly, rotational, up and down --- on and on

--

[sanjuro_ronin]

SJ, I'm curious, to you prefer a heavier style boxing bag or a Thai or Banana bag and why? What do you feel are the benefits and/or the differences in these two styles of bags?

The size of the bag and weight is dependant on YOUR size and what you do.
People under 200lbs are fine with 70 or 80 lbs ( typically) and the 100lbs and over are best left to the heavyweights or those that are really heavy hitters.
Thai bags are different because they are longer and as such, the weight will always be more, in which case it becomes a question of density.
Of course the real hard and dense sandbags to also serve a purpose.
Ideally you would want at least two types of bags, if not more.
A thai bag ( helps to work on sweeps, and low kicks).
A regular HB of at least 80lbs.
A "wrecking ball" or "bowling pin" type if it suits your needs OR a dense "sand bag".

But if you don't have the room then a good and sturdy HB of at least 80lbs and a hanging IP bag or sand bag.


I have a HB and a Thai bag, they I used depending on what I want to focus on.
A hanging IP filled with steel shot.
A high density dummy.
A throwing dummy
A wooden dummy.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

The size of the bag and weight is dependant on YOUR size and what you do.
People under 200lbs are fine with 70 or 80 lbs ( typically) and the 100lbs and over are best left to the heavyweights or those that are really heavy hitters.
Thai bags are different because they are longer and as such, the weight will always be more, in which case it becomes a question of density.
Of course the real hard and dense sandbags to also serve a purpose.
Ideally you would want at least two types of bags, if not more.
A thai bag ( helps to work on sweeps, and low kicks).
A regular HB of at least 80lbs.
A "wrecking ball" or "bowling pin" type if it suits your needs OR a dense "sand bag".

But if you don't have the room then a good and sturdy HB of at least 80lbs and a hanging IP bag or sand bag.


I have a HB and a Thai bag, they I used depending on what I want to focus on.
A hanging IP filled with steel shot.
A high density dummy.
A throwing dummy
A wooden dummy.

Thanks for the input.

I have two 100 pound Thai bags, one 80 pound heavy bag, double end ball, speed bag, and throwing dummy. In our system we are avid users of a kick shield, something I feel is beneficial to develop both power and technique when throwing kicks.

I do like using the wrecking ball, great for developing body shots. However, if room is an issue, as it is in my place, a heavy bag does the job just as well. Also many like the teardrop bags for throwing knees, but personally I feel a Thai bag is just as efficient and again if room is an issue a Thai bag is just as efficient.

I do disagree about the weight of bag in comparison to the weight of a person. I personally weigh about 175 but feel some, not all of the under 100 bags move to much for me. Also, the large 150 or 200 pound bags can develop some mean power. At my old boxing gym, we had 135 and 140 pounders who could rock that thing no problem. Just my two cents.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I do disagree about the weight of bag in comparison to the weight of a person. I personally weigh about 175 but feel some, not all of the under 100 bags move to much for me. Also, the large 150 or 200 pound bags can develop some mean power. At my old boxing gym, we had 135 and 140 pounders who could rock that thing no problem. Just my two cents.

All "rules' are meant to be broken dude

It's a good guideline to start from though.

[md1]

@ David, Nice routine and I will incorporate those Ideas into what we do. I try to have the guys do round / bag work and then every 3 round or so head right to the speed bag for a round to kind of mix it up.

We also have 3 different size and weight heavy bags hanging in a triangle lay out as to do rounds moving in and out and around the bags with just using the kung fu.
@ IE, Nice bag work.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

@ IE, Nice bag work.

Thanks.

One other thing to add to circuit/bag training is ground and pound drills on a throwing dummy or an old heavy bag, if you are into doing ground work. Depending on the circuit or agenda, I like to throw in 2 rounds of GNP drills and 2 rounds of throws and takedowns.

This is the dummy we use:http://www.combatsports.com/Combat-S...info/DMY1+120/

Again it depends on the agenda and kind of training you are into but these drills are very beneficial for ALL martial artists, not just us "clueless mma kickboxing knuckleheads".

[u dung]

Why the hell would you waste your time doing something as useless as bag work when you could be working on forms!!

In all seriousness, great write up DJ. The only addition I would add is to work on footwork adamantly. Too often I see guys who stand stationary in front of the bag and wail away at it without moving around, without parrying, and without moving their torso. Cliche as it sounds, stick and move, stick and move.

Also, I look at bag work the same as I do sparring, pick your shots, make them count, and don't "blow your load" in 30 seconds. If you go off like a stick of dynamite you may be powerful for a very brief time but after the explosion you have nothing. Endurance is the key to good bag work and in turn good sparring.

This would be a good thread to post videos of people doing bag work for critique and learning purposes, if anyone wants to do that.

who asked for your advice? your a begineer and you smell

[Iron_Eagle_76]

who asked for your advice? your a begineer and you smell

Thanks, nothing means more to me than great compliments from "terds" with 1 post on the forum. It truly makes my day that you signed up here to tell me that.