There is no such thing as authentic Wing Chun

[ntc]

mvbrown21 --> thank you for sharing your story. It was very refreshing and encouraging.

[Hendrik]

My dear Hendrik I simply asked for clarification on your oringnal post

Hendrik: If one look at the distinct different between the Yik Kam SLT and the CLF set of Cho family, one will see how Cho family evolve their art.

1. Are you implying that the Cho Family have evolved the YIK KAM SLT into a CLF set?

OR

2. That in "addition" to the YIK Kam SLT the Cho family created a CLF set were one will see this evolution?

Just a simple answer 1 or 2 to clarify your opinion / statement.

OK.


Technical speaking.


1, Yes, that particular CLF set is a fusion of some Yik Kam SLT concept and CLF dynamics.


2, These CLF evolution can be seen within the CLF set and also other set such as the drunken set and also some Kuen Kuit which is hybrid of CLF and WCK terms. IMHO, The existance of these evolution is to have both mobility of CLF and details elegant point of contact handling of SLT.


In fact, technically, these fusion is beautiful and it is a good solution which answer even some of the needs of today's mmA.


So, from these sets, one can derive what happen in Cho Dak-Shing era, what Cho Dak Shing face, and how solution are put together.

That is how via these set one can look into what is likely happen in the era.


These hybrid is a beautifull piece of art however it is not everyone's piece of cake because to be able to have CLF's mobility structure and WCK's smooth and high density point of contact handling means decades of blood and sweat in additional to talent.

[Hendrik]

Facts? So you have been to the Cho Village's and to the 19 schools and meet

with the Elders that still remember been taught by Cho Dak Sing and asked them their age.

I have not visited Cho village yet.


so,

Since you have visited them ;

please share with us when is Cho Shun and Cho Dak Sing passed away, and at what age are the elders at that time and how long they train with my sijo Cho Dak Sing?

I always have room to learn from anyone.

Thanks in advance.

Pure as in not mixed with CLF, unchanged as in not altered since it's teaching from Yik Kam.

Not my words

but from the head Cho family (son of Cho Cheun) who made this statement in a gathering of Wing Chun master from all over Gwondung province.

I am not there when Cho Cheun's son give the speech, So I dont know what you are refering to.

As for your VDO clips, is this what your statement is based on, is this your research.

Have you visited either?

Don't you continuously defend your Tai Chi clips by saying you can not judge what you can not see and must "bai si" to get the goods?

Since this is about Cho family Yik Kam's teaching, So let's focus on is there possible a PURE and UNCHANGE according to Yik Kam's teaching.



Those Videos clips which is in my previous post are a FACTURE REALITY of what is practice today.

Do you agree?


So, which Videos clip shows PURE and UNCHANGE Yik Kam's teaching?



GM Cheong Wai Poh in the Youtube clip is the legitimate student of late GM Sam Chan,
GM Sam Chan is the grand student of Yik Kam. GM Cheong spend years and years with his sifu until his sifu passed away. He is one of the oldest generation in today's Cho family tree.

http://operawingchun.blogspot.com/

So, GM Cheong's clip is one legitimate data of Cho family practice.

is that PURE and UNCHANGE Yik Kam's teaching?

If I were to put 2 links to your "Sihengs" vdo clips on Youtube would that be a fair indicator of the Wing Chun you practise?

in fact I have post them,

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/show...93&postcount=1

and

here another one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMVsWwjcOAQ



and the following is a sample of the Cho WCK of my Sifu who learn from GM Cho On and GM Cho Chuen and GM Sam Chan, also attached at the end is a letter from my late Sifu Cho Hong Choi to me to let those who is interested have a data point on what happen at almost 40 years ago.

Late Sifu Cho Hong Choi is the student of GM Cho On and GM Cho Chuen, also GM Sam Chan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqHE5A4LC80


The above are the snap shorts of Cho family art over past 50 years and more then four generations.



For me,
I dont mind to let the world see what it is as it is, how things evolve.
I am ok with different people evolve their arts be it my siheng or who it is. it is their art their training and they are free to choose their path.
Those are facts of life in the world I am living in. and I am just open with it.




In my world of martial art, evolution/ changes is un avoidable due to different people different living condition.....etc.

Even within myself, my WCK evolve since 30 years ago when I first learn the 108 SLT set.
That is a reality which I am not shy to tell the world.

[YouKnowWho]

so in stead of Fa jin is the 1/5. Fa Jin is the based of everything.


Thus, your handling such as the following is problematic


because there is no such thing on " we just have to do the best we can in the certain area (such as Fajin) and move on."

One cant move if the power generation platform surge. and knowing not the characteristics and handling of the power generation platform is a kiss of death because the same technics always has a power generation platform dependency.

and

Advance TCMA is dealing with these power surge.

I just realized that I have not responsed to your comment on this. This part of discussion is more interested to me.

One may spend the rest of his life trying to punch as power as Mike Tyson, that day may never come. TCMA is much much more than just a powerful punch.

You believe 2 doors, snake engine, 6 direction vector force, ... all those "solo" training" can make you a better fighter. I believe only training with a life opponent can achieve that. You believe "solo" training is the most important part. I believe the solo training can only "enhance" your combat ability after you have "developed" it from 2 men drills, and also "tested" it by sparring/wrestling. Without completing the "developing" stage and "testing" stage, there will be nothing to "enhance" on.

When I mentioned:

1. 時間(Shi Jian) - timing,
2. 機会(Ji Hui) - opportunity
3. 角度(Jiao Du) - angle
4. 力的使用(Li De Shi Yong) - Fajin
5. 平衡(Ping Heng) - balance

Fajin is only 1/5 of the combat requirement.

All 5 requirements involve with "opponent" and cannot be done in "solo". Without a life resistence opponent in front of you, timing, opportunity, angle won't make any sense. The balance has to do with when you apply your move on your opponent's body and that affect your balance. It's not just your own balance in solo situation (solo balance is just too easy). The Fajin has to do with how to generate power on your opponent's body and not just striking into the thin air.

If you can create a chance to let your opponent to run into your punch, you don't need 100% Faijin either. This is my favor clip for the striking art argument. The other 4 requirements (timing, opportunity, angle, balance) also play important role here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G31h5gbazwU

[Hendrik]

You believe 2 doors, snake engine, 6 direction vector force, ... all those "solo" training" can make you a better fighter.

Nope ,

2 doors, snake engine, 6 direction vectors force are Instantaneous training, those are the training developing instantaneously be able to handle and generate power surge.

[YouKnowWho]

Some TCMA systems just spend too much time in the "solo" training and totally ignore timing, opportunity, angle, ... as if the word "opponent" doesn't even exist.

[Hendrik]

Wing Chun is Wing Chun is Wing Chun. Don't let the politics and lineage wars get into your head (like I did for a time). If what you do works for you, then stick with it but make sure you're happy with it.

I agree with you.

Just do what works for one and feel happy with it.

[Ozzy Dave]

I am new to Wing Chun, after reading a lot more on this forum, and also researching on WingChunPedia. I am getting more confuse and losing motivation.

Wing Chun is a great system. There are many, many people practising it around the world so there is bound to be a lot of disagreement.

It is however, direct and simple as all the ways of attacking the opponent generally use the same method of generating force while some other systems train a variety of ways.

Also, the prime strategy is to make the opponent play your game not adapt to the opponents, again different from some other styles with a larger curriculum.

I personally like these two characteristics very much but just remember as I’ve heard the Old Hands say - Wing Chun is easy to learn, hard to master.

Dave

[theo]

Some TCMA systems just spend too much time in the "solo" training and totally ignore timing, opportunity, angle, ... as if the word "opponent" doesn't even exist.

i was on business travel the past week and wasn't able to jump in here as often, but looks like there was some good discussion.

YKW, the solo training is to develop the body and mind, enabling it to be able to handle the nuances of power generation as described by Hendrik (quite well I might add with the mechanical analogy). Nowhere does he say this is the only thing that is done or that just by doing this one will can become an excellent fighter.

Timing, distance, etc all of those things are certainly to be considered in application. imo, the solo training and application are two parts of the complete picture, hendrik is only referring to the solo training part of it in this case

[theo]

I agree with you.

Just do what works for one and feel happy with it.

life's full of choices isn't it?

[Hendrik]

i was on business travel the past week and wasn't able to jump in here as often, but looks like there was some good discussion.

YKW, the solo training is to develop the body and mind, enabling it to be able to handle the nuances of power generation as described by Hendrik (quite well I might add with the mechanical analogy). Nowhere does he say this is the only thing that is done or that just by doing this one will can become an excellent fighter.

Timing, distance, etc all of those things are certainly to be considered in application. imo, the solo training and application are two parts of the complete picture, hendrik is only referring to the solo training part of it in this case

These type of CLOSE LOOP solo practice is actually help one to perform better in dual make a heaven and earth different with a Close loop training.