CLF Diu Mah Alignment

[Eric Olson]

One big problem I see in CLF forms (not fighting) is a misalignment in the legs. In Northern style stances, including Taiji, the femur and foot always point in the same direction.

In CLF, in particular the knee and toe become misaligned. I think this puts unnecessary pressure on the knee joint.

See video below for what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/user/AustinKu...13/t04oAniAafc

When the student holds a low stance, he turns his waist so his left shoulder is forward, this creates alignment of the leg and foot (0:07). When he turns so both shoulders face forward the knee and foot are not longer aligned (0:21).

You see the same thing with Kau Mah (cross-stance). This is one of my big gripes with CLF. I really like the hands but the stances (at least in the forms) seem to go against natural movement at times. The videos are from my same lineage of CLF so perhaps other branches don't have the exact same issue.

Thoughts?

[Drake]

Worst cat stance EVAR...

[hskwarrior]

this how we do our Diu Ma in the Lau Bun lineage. our knee's are in line with our toes

[Drake]

You only have about 20% of your weight on the lead foot. You also aren't supposed to hang out in the stance. It's a very swift transition.

[Keng Lee]

shut up........

[CLFNole]

When you practice lie ma (ng lun ma) or che kuen (ng lun choy) the lead foot and lead elbow should point in the same direction and there should be nothing wrong with alignment. So rather than having the chest point in the same diection as the lead leg of the cat stance the right elbow would point in the same direction as the right leg if in right cat stance. It is when the opposite hand shoots out that I can see some "un-natural" movement might occur but this is typically for a brief second and I don't find it uncomfortable or un-natural since I have been doing it for so many years.

The way I teach it is the back leg foot should form more or less a right angle with the front foot and the toe of the lead foot should be in line with the heel of the rear foot.

[omarthefish]

You only have about 20% of your weight on the lead foot. You also aren't supposed to hang out in the stance. It's a very swift transition.

More like 0%. That's why it's name in most northern styles is "empty stance". The front leg is "empty". You can see that the Lau Bun guys pretty much do it that way.

[hskwarrior]

More like 0%. That's why it's name in most northern styles is "empty stance". The front leg is "empty". You can see that the Lau Bun guys pretty much do it that way.

Our Diu Mah is basically 98/99% on the back and 1-2 % on the front. we do it this way to evade a front leg sweep. (one of the reasons)

[YouKnowWho]

More like 0%. That's why it's name in most northern styles is "empty stance". The front leg is "empty". You can see that the Lau Bun guys pretty much do it that way.

My longfist teacher loved to sweep my front foot when I was in a "虛步(Xu Bu) - empty stance" to make sure that I had 0% weight on my leading foot. He also required that my back foot was in a 45 degree angle to my front foot.

IMO, the "虛步(Xu Bu) - empty stance" is not that useful. It's too conservative. If you are afraid to be swept, you will never have courage to attack. If you know how to escape a foot sweep, you won't care about whether you have 0% weight on your leading foot or not.

The moment that you see your opponent stay in "虛步(Xu Bu) - empty stance", you can push his shoulder and scoop his leading foot up and then run him down. Your opponent's "虛步(Xu Bu) - empty stance" will give you an excellent chance to enter.

[lkfmdc]

My longfist teacher loved to sweep my front foot when I was in a "虛步(Xu Bu) - empty stance" to make sure that I had 0% weight on my leading foot. He also required that my back foot was in a 45 degree angle to my front foot.

IMO, the "虛步(Xu Bu) - empty stance" is not that useful. It's too conservative. If you are afraid to be swept, you will never have courage to attack. If you know how to escape a foot sweep, you won't care about whether you have 0% weight on your leading foot or not.

The moment that you see your opponent stay in "虛步(Xu Bu) - empty stance", you can push his shoulder and scoop his leading foot up and then run him down. Your opponent's "虛步(Xu Bu) - empty stance" will give you an excellent chance to enter.

the problem, endemic to TCMA, is taking a mere moment in a real situation and turning it into a static posture. "Assuming" an empty stance is the same thing as posing a punch. It never happens that way in real life

[Drake]

the problem, endemic to TCMA, is taking a mere moment in a real situation and turning it into a static posture. "Assuming" an empty stance is the same thing as posing a punch. It never happens that way in real life

Gotta keep moving.

[lkfmdc]

Gotta keep moving.

or you end up looking like this

[hskwarrior]

Outside of training, does anyone really use an EMPTY STANCE? We don't. Not while sparring or fighting. but that doesn't mean we throw away drill that works even when not in the Diu Mah. We only use static Diu Mah during stance training.

[lkfmdc]

Outside of training, does anyone really use an EMPTY STANCE? We don't.

if you never use it, why even train it?

We only use static Diu Mah during stance training.

but WHY? You just said you don't use that stance, so why train it?

And I can tell you there are much more productive things you should be doing other than stance training

[hskwarrior]

if you never use it, why even train it?

I never said we don't use it. I said we don't fight using a Diu Mah. The Diu Mah has FEW good purposes. I also keep up Stance training cause its TRADITIONALLY what we do.

but WHY? You just said you don't use that stance, so why train it?

And I can tell you there are much more productive things you should be doing other than stance training

I will NEVER cut out traditional stance training as long as I live or teach. if you have, thats fine and dandy. It's not what i plan to do.

We use it in a more functional manner, but we don't just sit there in that stance waiting for you to do something. the way we use Diu Mah is evasive and in transition.