why all zones should be practiced.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

who amongst this thread believe that this mindset should include weapons of various forms? ei: fire arms, blades, sticks, poles, etc.

How about a couple cannons!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

How about a couple cannons!!

Excellent work my friend !

[Lucas]

teh deadlY!

[Dragonzbane76]

For some unknown reson, it just seems to me that it's very nature for a grappler to learn some striking skill, but it's harder to convince a striker to learn some grappling skill no matter how hard you may have tried. May be all grapplers understand that they have to pass the striking range before they can get into the clinching range. To master some striking skill is a must. But some striker just believe that they will never have to get into the clinching range. That kind of unrealistic thinking make you feel like a chicken talks to a duck.

I've always been a "natural" at grappling and feel the most comfortable in that zone. I learned early on that to work to my streng. I had to close the distance in order to grab. Once I started learning the striking game I came to appreciate it more so. I agree with you that most people I've bumped into that come from a religious striking background tend to think the clinch range does not even exist. I can't tell you the amount of times I've went to other schools and been asked to spar. When we step up and I throw some combinations and then follow in behind to grab the person stops and says "what are you doing?" Then they go onto say they just want to work stand up without grabbing.

I'll mumble under my breath most times and just work stand up but it happens a lot.

[vociferor]

Many of you will not understand the importance of learning grappling, wrestling (or defenses against these arts) until you've rolled around with a practitioner and realized, perhaps for the first time in your entire life, that you just experienced a simulation in which your arm, leg, ankle, or neck was broken. Or that being choked to the point of blacking out means far more in a real-life situation than a practice one. In real-life, if you get choked out, you can get your skull beaten out of your head and never wake up again. But in practice, we laugh with our friends every time they best us and do it again.

My JJ instructor told me, (and whether this is true I do not know, but in my personal experience with real fights, I do not doubt) "80% of all fights go to the ground"... at least they did when I initiated a throw (judo), a takedown (wrestling), or a well-executed stand-up (grappling) maneuvar.

The last fight I got into was with a boxer who had the most solid stance of anyone I have ever fought, either in real life or in practice. After I thew him and we got on the ground, he was helpless (as he had no experience in this area at all. He had no idea What To Expect, or How To Defend). I can honestly tell you, I would've lost that fight- and horribly- had I of not known a bit of judo and grappling.


Case in point: don't be a prude, learn new things. Keeping your mind open and learning about a different martial art than the one you "normally" practice, could indeed give you a far greater perspective of the one you already practice.

The key-point is on the emphasis of the word Martial ARTIST, not Martial ROBOT. The Artist continually creates: continues to expand, evolve, learn more about him/herself. The Robot simply fulfills a series of functions, as if it is programmed to do what it has been shown, or to do what it has been told.

Some people are fine being robots, but I find it much more fulfilling to identify as an Artist.


For those who say/think Jiu Jitsu is "gay", think this all you want. Heck, when I took my girlfriend to JJ practice, she remarked after an hour of watching men roll around on the mats how "gay" it was... and perhaps from her perspective (someone who basically didn't understand what she was seeing), it can remind someone a lot of sex [I say that seriously, and without humour] But as we left the gym that day I answered her by saying, "it's only gay until someone gets their neck snapped"


As far as ground-fighting or grappling is concerned in a situation where there are multiple attackers: you obviously don't want to roll around on the ground with 3 guys trying to team up on you (not unless you have absolute confidence that you can nullify them). But even experienced grapplers would be hesitant, which is why I decided it would be Paramount to learn Kung Fu, which is an art capable of handling the problem of multiple attackers (and yet, so is boxing).

Let me also not forget to mention how I was in a fight with a guy once who was a far superior striker than myself... but after 2 minutes of giving it his all and still not being able to knock me out, he lost all energy and tired out (he was also a smoker); I however, jogging on a regular basis, had more endurance than him and outlasted him until he wore out, THEN I was the better fighter.


I hate jogging, but I do it for that reason (including health benefits, of course).

You never know what you're going to have to face, or what you will be up against.


Perhaps it is that you are the better all-around fighter than the guy who starts a fight with you on a scaffolding ledge 40 stories high... and your balance is shabby, yet his- having worked in the construction industry for over 5 years- is superior to your own. Perhaps this one little, otherwise unthought about factor is what determines the outcome of the fight and the decision between life and death? Perhaps.

This is what separates the artists from the robots.


I don't think many people consider Bruce Lee a great martial artist because he was talented in the area of mechanical ability. He's considered great because he was a philosopher First. Everything else: followed. That's an Artist.

[Violent Designs]

How about you get off your high horse and accept the fact that some people don't really care about learning other ranges?

Example: sports fighters in either grappling or kickboxing who focus on one sport because that is their **** job or their passion and they just don't care about the other arena.

[wenshu]

Enjoyment of kickboxing makes baby Guan Yu cry.

[Lokhopkuen]

<SNIP>
My JJ instructor told me, (and whether this is true I do not know, but in my personal experience with real fights, I do not doubt) "80% of all fights go to the ground"... at least they did when I initiated a throw (judo), a takedown (wrestling), or a well-executed stand-up (grappling) maneuvar.
<SNIP/>.

Vociferor I enjoyed reading your post you touch on some valid points from a logical perspective. Wrestling and grappling are two essential elements in relation to becoming a well rounded martial arts practitioner.

IMHO I feel that it is important to start the training very early in life.



After all experience is the key to excellence

[vociferor]

How about you get off your high horse and accept the fact that some people don't really care about learning other ranges?

I accept this in the same manner that I recognize not all people choose to be healthy, conquer their demons (resolve complexes), or otherwise improve their quality of life.

I accept this in the same manner I realize that not all people who practice martial arts use it as a meditation to enhance their awareness. That there are, on the contrary, many people who learn the arts to become bullies of other men.

I just wanted to highlight the differences between Robots and Artists.

[bawang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVGPEgRZwIw


what about this zone

if u dont train this ju jitsu is incomplete

[Violent Designs]

I accept this in the same manner that I recognize not all people choose to be healthy, conquer their demons (resolve complexes), or otherwise improve their quality of life.

I accept this in the same manner I realize that not all people who practice martial arts use it as a meditation to enhance their awareness. That there are, on the contrary, many people who learn the arts to become bullies of other men.

I just wanted to highlight the differences between Robots and Artists.

Wait, so because someone doesn't find grappling interesting, it means they are the same as someone who doesn't choose to A) improve their quality of life, B) choose to be intentionally unhealthy, or C) choose to be unaware idiots?

Once again, get off your high horse.

Your definition of "artist" is based on a set of biased, personal interpretations based on your personal, biased understanding of martial arts.

Does the painter who doesn't find learning to play music interesting mean that the painter is an idiot scumbag who chooses to be unhealthy, uneducated, and ignorant?

Your logic is ****ing flawless, buddy.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

@ Vociferor

Don't make the mistake of thinking because this is a Kung Fu forum that there are not people here who also train in grappling arts. Plenty of posters here with Shuai Jiao training and who also train BJJ, wrestling, Judo, ect. You make some valid points but they have been brought up here 3,888,726,214 times, just to let you know.

[wenshu]

Every time someone likes Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Zhang San Feng drowns a bag of baby unicorns in the Yellow river.

[bawang]

do you know what unicorns did in the nanking massacre?

[wenshu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz8ycL4g8N8