Combat Training and Mindset

[Pilgrim]

I have a friend who has trained for 25 years in a school whose lineage comes from Sigung Kao Tao Shung/Master Ong. While the system has many two man contact drills and two man forms, he feels one does not need to spar, one just needs to work their ass off and get in the mind set that when doing a form you are REALLY fighting a person. That way, when you are fighting you rely on the reflexive flow of movements that have been branded into your system from doing 1000's of correct form practice. I know there's a lot of validity to this concept, what do you think?

[JerryLove]

If someone tells me how to tackle in football, I'll do it better than someone who hasn't been told. And if I am told and practice on equipment, I'll do it better than someone who was just told. And if I am told and practice against other people who know how, I'll do it better than the guy who practiced on equipment.

An oversimplification to be sure, but my point is this: You can learn to fight without sparring. Not sparring is not going to help, and you may not learn to fight as well as you could have.

Of course the same thing can be said for actual fighting experience, but how far do you want to go for the sake of skill?

mindset is the key to fighting, you can practise 20 forms and still cannot fight, but if your mindset is on taking the opponent out then thats what you will do, even with a basic level form.

forms give you a base for techniques only.

peace

[grasshopper]

all of our training works together to the desired end,but undoubtedly the way to learn how to fight is to fight.hands on experience counts for a whole lot.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

"stop trying to hit me and HIT ME"

[brokenfist]

This reminds me of the Tapia/Romero fight from a few years ago. They were cross-town rivals, in Albaquerque I believe, and had a lot of bad blood between each other. Tapia was and is a tough fighter who trains extremely hard, as was Romero. However, Romero's trainer,who is his father, believed that his training techniques were so good that he thought Romero didn't need to spar. When the fight did occur, Tapia won decisively. The moral of this is that sparring shows you what techniques work best for you and show you your weaknesses. It also exposes you to the styles of others which will give you more knowledge.

"I got no dukes" -the goat

[rogue]

I've been busting my butt on learning my systems forms. I mean really learning them, trying to get them perfect. There's a lot of good stuff in the forms but without constant sparring to try them out for real it'd just be dancing.

I used to be daga

[LEGEND]

Pilgrim...I don't know about that dude...can you play football by doing SOLO drills only??? Or can you actually play football when the time comes??? Can you take the hit??? Can you be accurate with your throws in REAL TIME with REAL PLAYERs??? The same goes to martial arts...can you throw punches at a moving target??? can you absorb hits and retiallate!

A

[Black Jack]

I don't care how many times you practice your forms...forms do not make a person a good fighter...to think that by "just" practicing a form you will be given the ability to defeat a determined street attack is foolish.

To learn to fight you need to get out there and do some serious sparring...period.

There are other tools you need to add to this mix of course, two person combat training drills, energy/flow drills, bag work, focus work, forms practice or better yet IMO shadowboxing.

Regards

[Pilgrim]

Thanks for the replies. Just to add fuel to the fire: (1) It's been my experience that none of my teachers have ever sparred with me, in fact, I'm not sure if they spar with anyone on a regular basis; (2) how many out there spar with the Sifu or Sigung and since you probably don't how do the Sifu's and Sigung's stay so good? (3) Some of the reasons for not sparing is that the techniques are too powerfull and doing them with full force would prevent them from being done in a "spirit of cooperation" and result in hurting training partners.

[Black Jack]

The popular..."my systems techniques are to deadly, so we do not spar"...type of comment is a dead on copout.

When someone states something like that, I always think that this must be a pretty weak system in terms of good old fashioned basics.

Does your style not have basic punches, hand strikes and kicks or is it all about eye jabs?

I know that you should be very carefull about any infighting tools that you throw into the drill or sparring session, as tools like elbows, headbutts and knees need control but with good control they can be applied.

Sparring can open up your eyes to a whole new world and teach you things about how you fight under pressure and your inherit weaknesses that no form can ever express.

Regards

[JWTAYLOR]

I spar with my Sifu reguarly. I'm learly of any instructor that won't spar. Sometimes I get a good hit in, and that makes me very happy. But he pretty much mops the floor with me. It is not uncommon for me to have to ask him what technique he used to knock me down. Since I never saw it comming. He spars with other people outside the school as well as his students.

JWT

[no 1]

see the ball danny....be...the ball.

breathe

[LEGEND]

PILGRIM...your sifu doesn't spar??? regarding his uhhhhhhhhh POWER and TECH...you can wear protection and go full contact...I don't understand!

A

kentucky fried martial arts, 10 different herbs and spices.

[Ross]

Hey there are some systems that have a pretty good reputation that never spar. It all depends what you mean by "spar".

Southern Mantis(as I have been told-anyone know better?) does not have sparring yet they have a reputation for devestating short hand work (hey you Hakka types...do any of the other Hakka systems have sparring?).

Aikido doesn't have sparring per say. There is no competition...only Uke and Tori helping each other.

I could probably find other examples. Do you think that these two man drills equalize things a bit?

I personally think that different people will need different things to be what they want to be. I bet Wong Shun Leung would still have been a star whether he actually sparred or not. Others..(?J Funk?)..all the sparring in the world isn't going to help!

FWIW [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] R [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[This message was edited by R on 11-02-00 at 03:35 PM.]