Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 129

Thread: Goat Restraining or Pigeon Toed Stance

  1. #106
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Dahlonega, GA USA
    Posts
    1,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumblegeezer View Post
    Good point. Maybe you could say, "Jack of many trades and master of one"? Regardless, I often disagree with John's observations on WC based on his experiences nearly 40 years ago. But his input is interesting. Sometimes an outsider perspective is a good thing.
    So which art is he a "Master" of?
    Okay, I will say that he is akin to someone with a Liberal Arts Degree, a broad based educational approach and a basic knowledge of several things.
    In comparison someone who trains in Wing Chun for a good number of years and develops some skill could be akin to someone completing a graduate program in a specific subject area.

    What would happen if someone with a degree in Liberal arts tried to lecture a Professor in the subject he had obtained a degree?
    While they may have some insight which could be helpful they do not possess the depth of knowledge or experience of someone trained in their specific curriculum. I am reminded of the story of a brilliant math major who was on the fast track to fame in their field. They thought they found some flaws in their instructors equations, but the reality was that they simply had not advanced enough to fully follow their teachers equations. This is often the case in many things but particularly when someone tries to instruct those who actually do the subject of instruction.

    Now with that being said that does not mean I feel John does not bring anything of value to this forum, just that he does not know as much about Wing Chun as he may think.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  2. #107
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Dahlonega, GA USA
    Posts
    1,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Redmond View Post
    You are very wrong. Wu Mei Pai (Ng Mui Pai) is a feminine system. It was tha style that Ng Mui did.
    Had an opportunity some years ago to visit a school in NYC.
    Unless I am mistaken this was the only school teaching in the US.
    Interesting system in it's own right.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  3. #108
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    So using your logic, anyone who trained with Yip Man was definitely good at Wing Chun, yet based on much of the infighting I would propose that is not the case.
    Then again using the same logic if my father was a great cardio surgeon and I became a general practitioner I would, by inference, be a great doctor. Not always the case..................again.
    Also along your logical line of thought; a great fighter would, by virtue of their ability, naturally produce other great fighters............again not the case.

    John admits in his posts that he takes whatever he wants and applies that in his own way and not necessarily in relation to his original style.

    He further comes to a Wing Chun forum and posts things which have little, if anything to do with Wing Chun.
    He also failed to answer simple questions when I posed them to him, go read my posts and the responses he gave.
    To be blunt, in many ways he reminds me of another poster who recently left, and I am sure will return again soon.

    I am not saying he is not skilled but again using your logic; Hendrick was reputed to have been a fighter of some note, though not in Wing Chun, so we should give heed to what he said as he fought at one time.

    My main point is that while it is sometimes interesting to hear from someone outside, when they post as though they have the secret sauce then it is time to call them on it. This is a Wing Chun forum and we have enough trouble with people that practice the style without someone with a limited understanding of this system coming and trying to enlighten us.

    Compare it to a Harley forum where people discuss Harley motorcycles.
    While it may be okay for someone who rides a Honda to come on and post from time to time, would it be proper for the Honda rider to try to school those that actually own and ride a Harley? While some things may be in common some are specific to that brand. While there is a degree of commonality in all martial arts, would you really listen to a Judo guy posting about Wing Chun? Particularily if by their own admission any exposure to Wing Chun training was almost a half century earlier?
    logic seems to be missing from your post, because logically you cant compare a simple student of an opium addicted largely unknown teacher who owes his fame to kids fighting on roof tops in hong kong and having had a movie star pass through his gym and who was bankrupt upon turning up in hongkong and and taught to scratch together a living (who seems to have taught anyone for the right price) to a disciple (not a regular student an indoor disciple) of probably the most famous fighting master to come out of china in the last century, a man who won the all chinese heavyweight title twice, who taught empty hand fighting throughout the military, who was the youngest faculty member in the Nanjing Central Kuoshu Institute, who upon escaping to taiwan was given a position of Senior Instructor in unarmed training by Presidential edict at the centeral police academy, and a man who was never defeated in countless wrestling, sanda and striaght up challanges,

    do you see where im going with this? Yipman was broke when he escaped the mainland, taught to feed himself and if you had enough money you were his student, was largely unkown outside kong kong and his students largely teenagers who slap vested on roof tops, so being his student didnt mean much

    Now being an indoor disciple of a man famous for winning fights, being the best fighter in china and later taiwan, a man who didnt need to teach beginners and teenagers as people begged him to teach them, who the president paid to teach his police and military, well that means a little bit more doesnt it? it means you must know the system inside and out and be ready to answer challenges (john was the guy they used to answer challanges when his master wasn't around) and since he has been teaching that art with his masters blessing since 1972 its fair to say he knows that art fairly well no? when did you start teaching wing chun, hell when did you start training it for that matter?

    So we can logically say know he mastered one art, and since he one countless challenges, was the heavyweight wrestling champion three years in a row, trained the first american team to go and compete in Taiwan and has posted clips of his students winning in sanda we can also say he knows about fighting can we not, that would be logical no?

    ANd that not even going into his longfist background which he started before his wrestling, or the fact he started wing chun back in 78 or so, when did you start it again?

    He might have only studied wing chun for a few years, but since where here does it say you have to still train wing chun as your main art or for a set number of years before contributing?

    so logically , well you are being a bit silly no?

  4. #109
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    So which art is he a "Master" of?
    Okay, I will say that he is akin to someone with a Liberal Arts Degree, a broad based educational approach and a basic knowledge of several things.
    In comparison someone who trains in Wing Chun for a good number of years and develops some skill could be akin to someone completing a graduate program in a specific subject area.

    What would happen if someone with a degree in Liberal arts tried to lecture a Professor in the subject he had obtained a degree?
    While they may have some insight which could be helpful they do not possess the depth of knowledge or experience of someone trained in their specific curriculum. I am reminded of the story of a brilliant math major who was on the fast track to fame in their field. They thought they found some flaws in their instructors equations, but the reality was that they simply had not advanced enough to fully follow their teachers equations. This is often the case in many things but particularly when someone tries to instruct those who actually do the subject of instruction.

    Now with that being said that does not mean I feel John does not bring anything of value to this forum, just that he does not know as much about Wing Chun as he may think.
    Shuai jiao, he has been teaching it since the 70s, and was the indoor disciple of the late great Chang Tung Sheng, so over 40 years in that art would qualify as a master no, he has been doing longfist even longer, thats what you class as basic knowledge is it, close to 5 decades in two main arts???? heavyweight champions three years running in one of them? thats a good grounding in chinese arts no? he also did formal wing chun back in the 70s for a few years so has been playing around with wing chun for over 30 years i suppose

    want to remove your foot from your mouth yet?

  5. #110
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumblegeezer View Post
    Good point. Maybe you could say, "Jack of many trades and master of one"? Regardless, I often disagree with John's observations on WC based on his experiences nearly 40 years ago. But his input is interesting. Sometimes an outsider perspective is a good thing.
    probably master of two, or even three including his teacher taichi?? regardless of length of formal wing chun training someone with such a background would be able to pick any chinese art up quickly would you think? and be better able to judge its merits within the context of chinese martial arts than someone with only one or two arts in their background and with only a mere 10 years of constant training?

  6. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    probably master of two, or even three including his teacher taichi?? regardless of length of formal wing chun training someone with such a background would be able to pick any chinese art up quickly would you think? and be better able to judge its merits within the context of chinese martial arts than someone with only one or two arts in their background and with only a mere 10 years of constant training?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I am confident that 1. John knows his shuai chao and 2. that he can add for his own purposes can add techniques from here and there
    from elsewhere.

    But his understanding of wing chun is quite shallow. Why are we discussing John? Oh well....

    Truly- there is a lot of bad wing chun on the net as well.

  7. #112
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Dahlonega, GA USA
    Posts
    1,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    want to remove your foot from your mouth yet?
    Nope, I find it quite satisfying

    Still does not mean he knows Wing Chun

    A point which seems to be obvious so a few others here as well.

    Did you get your check from John in the mail yet?
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  8. #113
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Dahlonega, GA USA
    Posts
    1,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    logic seems to be missing from your post, because logically you cant compare a simple student of an opium addicted largely unknown teacher who owes his fame to kids fighting on roof tops in hong kong and having had a movie star pass through his gym and who was bankrupt upon turning up in hongkong and and taught to scratch together a living (who seems to have taught anyone for the right price) to a disciple

    do you see where im going with this? Yipman was broke when he escaped the mainland, taught to feed himself and if you had enough money you were his student, was largely unkown outside kong kong and his students largely teenagers who slap vested on roof tops, so being his student didnt mean much

    when did you start teaching wing chun, hell when did you start training it for that matter?

    So we can logically say know he mastered one art, and since he one countless challenges, was the heavyweight wrestling champion three years in a row, trained the first american team to go and compete in Taiwan and has posted clips of his students winning in sanda we can also say he knows about fighting can we not, that would be logical no?

    He might have only studied wing chun for a few years, but since where here does it say you have to still train wing chun as your main art or for a set number of years before contributing?

    so logically , well you are being a bit silly no?
    Wow, you have something against Yip Man and are riding Johns crotch, sorry did not mean to upset your relationship.

    Go back and read my post because I did not only reference Yip Man. Then again it is far easier to refute points if you ignore the whole thought. Now that is certainly logical............at least for you.

    Never said he did not know his art, just that he does not know Wing Chun.

    As to when I started teaching Wing Chun it was in 1987, that is when I was officially given permission to teach WT.
    As to when I started Wing Chun, I started it when I was about 15 after earning a Black Belt in Judo.
    So let's see, I am now 50 so that means I have been training in Wing Chun for some 35 years.
    While I have also trained in other arts, Wing Chun remains my foundation and part of my regular training.
    Oh, I am also listed a "disciple" under Chung Kwok Chow, does that somehow make me special

    Oh, I have worked as a Correctional Officer and Police Officer for a number of years too. During that time I had some encounters which were less than friendly. I mean people actually trying to hurt or kill me. I am still here, does that make me some kind of super man or awesome fighter? Not necessarily, I could just be really lucky.

    How long have you been doing Wing Chun??

    One truth is that it really does not matter how long someone has been training but rather the quality of that training that matters.

    But Joy is correct, no need to keep discussing John, his knowledge of Wing Chun is not as deep as his main system. I concede he is able to blend things from other arts to enhance his own approach, which I believe is the traditional method. However, his grasp of Wing Chun is not as deep as he would seem to think.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  9. #114
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    Wow, you have something against Yip Man and are riding Johns crotch, sorry did not mean to upset your relationship.

    Go back and read my post because I did not only reference Yip Man. Then again it is far easier to refute points if you ignore the whole thought. Now that is certainly logical............at least for you.

    Never said he did not know his art, just that he does not know Wing Chun.

    As to when I started teaching Wing Chun it was in 1987, that is when I was officially given permission to teach WT.
    As to when I started Wing Chun, I started it when I was about 15 after earning a Black Belt in Judo.
    So let's see, I am now 50 so that means I have been training in Wing Chun for some 35 years.
    While I have also trained in other arts, Wing Chun remains my foundation and part of my regular training.
    Oh, I am also listed a "disciple" under Chung Kwok Chow, does that somehow make me special

    Oh, I have worked as a Correctional Officer and Police Officer for a number of years too. During that time I had some encounters which were less than friendly. I mean people actually trying to hurt or kill me. I am still here, does that make me some kind of super man or awesome fighter? Not necessarily, I could just be really lucky.

    How long have you been doing Wing Chun??

    One truth is that it really does not matter how long someone has been training but rather the quality of that training that matters.

    But Joy is correct, no need to keep discussing John, his knowledge of Wing Chun is not as deep as his main system. I concede he is able to blend things from other arts to enhance his own approach, which I believe is the traditional method. However, his grasp of Wing Chun is not as deep as he would seem to think.
    riding johns crotch? really you should again remove your foot from your mouth the taste must be quite bad by now, read any of the threads here over the years and you will see i disagree alot with him, on strength training, on submission grappling and mma in particular, BUT to call someone who started wing chun a decade before you a jack of all trades is a bit silly no?

    And i have nothing against yip man but the differences between him and johns teacher are night and day wouldnt you agree? and thus who they taught and how they taught also different

  10. #115
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Dahlonega, GA USA
    Posts
    1,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    riding johns crotch? really you should again remove your foot from your mouth the taste must be quite bad by now, read any of the threads here over the years and you will see i disagree alot with him, on strength training, on submission grappling and mma in particular, BUT to call someone who started wing chun a decade before you a jack of all trades is a bit silly no?

    And i have nothing against yip man but the differences between him and johns teacher are night and day wouldnt you agree? and thus who they taught and how they taught also different
    To paraphrase a saying;

    It is not the one who starts first but the one who understands that is the senior.
    By the way, Frost, when was it you said you started Wing Chun?
    Perhaps your grasp of the art is also shallow...............not sure if that is the case but then again

    Frost, you seem to have an oral fixation, good luck with that

    If you wish to continue discussing John then I suggest we do it on another thread or by IM rather than we keep going on this thread.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  11. #116
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    To paraphrase a saying;

    It is not the one who starts first but the one who understands that is the senior.
    By the way, Frost, when was it you said you started Wing Chun?
    Perhaps your grasp of the art is also shallow...............not sure if that is the case but then again

    Frost, you seem to have an oral fixation, good luck with that

    If you wish to continue discussing John then I suggest we do it on another thread or by IM rather than we keep going on this thread.
    Oh I see as per usual you want to get the last word in then seek to close a thread, high-handed and sarcastic well done you �� well I started wing Chun 2002 but why does that matter when you say its not the one who starts first but the one one who understands it better.... honestly I see wing chun as an inferior southern art which no one seems to be able to show actually working as they say it should, it has it's uses in certain circumstances as part of a larger skillset at least for me and since no one here can post it being used as they say it should outside the confines of their own gym with compliant students ill stand by thy view, I just like visiting this forum as some of the threads are funny as hell , and some of the posters unintentionally funny and stuck up �� by the way dont you think my point in yip man is correct? He was penniless upon arriving in Hong Kong no? He was largely a no one outside Hong Kong and did teach to make a living and did take money from anyone to survive no?
    Last edited by Frost; 10-19-2014 at 08:38 AM.

  12. #117
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Dahlonega, GA USA
    Posts
    1,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Oh I see as per usual you want to get the last word in then seek to close a thread, high-handed and sarcastic well done you �� well I started wing Chun 2002 but why does that matter when you say its not the one who starts first but the one one who understands it better.... honestly I see wing chun as an inferior southern art which no one seems to be able to show actually working as they say it should, it has it's uses in certain circumstances as part of a larger skillset at least for me and since no one here can post it being used as they say it should outside the confines of their own gym with compliant students ill stand by thy view, I just like visiting this forum as some of the threads are funny as hell , and some of the posters unintentionally funny and stuck up �� by the way dont you think my point in yip man is correct? He was penniless upon arriving in Hong Kong no? He was largely a no one outside Hong Kong and did teach to make a living and did take money from anyone to survive no?
    Frost,

    Are you off your meds??

    Where did I imply anything about closing a thread?
    Yip Man had a history before Hong Kong, perhaps you should research that to get a better overall picture of his level of skill.
    Given that you feel Wing Chun is an inferior system, I am curious as to why you train it or post on a forum dedicated to that art?
    Oh, that's right you find some of the posts and those who post "funny as hell", I can assure you that you may be viewed in the same vein.
    So lets see, you started Wing Chun in 2002, feel it is inferior and apparently without any real value. (It was you who brought the amount of time spent training up)
    And who are you again?? What is your claim to fame to make your opinion of value to anyone, particularly to me?
    Please continue your life and POV as you wish, I do wish you well.
    I do not need the last word so please feel free to post again as I am sure you will need to.

    I will add you to my view of those with limited Wing Chun understanding and consider your opinions in that same light.
    To be blunt, Just as my opinion hardly matters to others on the internet, your opinion matters even less to me.

    Come on now. get that last word in, don't disappoint me
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  13. #118
    [QUOTE=Frost;1277710]logic seems to be missing from your post, because logically you cant compare a simple student of an opium addicted largely unknown teacher who owes his fame to kids fighting on roof tops in hong kong and having had a movie star pass through his gym and who was bankrupt upon turning up in hongkong and and taught to scratch together a living (who seems to have taught anyone for the right price) to a disciple (not a regular student an indoor disciple) of probably the most famous fighting master to come out of china in the last century, a man who won the all chinese heavyweight title twice, who taught empty hand fighting throughout the military, who was the youngest faculty member in the Nanjing Central Kuoshu Institute, who upon escaping to taiwan was given a position of Senior Instructor in unarmed training by Presidential edict at the centeral police academy, and a man who was never defeated in countless wrestling, sanda and striaght up challanges,

    do you see where im going with this? Yipman was broke when he escaped the mainland, taught to feed himself and if you had enough money you were his student, was largely unkown outside kong kong and his students largely teenagers who slap vested on roof tops, so being his student didnt mean much

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Frost's comments on Ip man involves considerable cherry picking and is quite incomplete. I have great respect for John's teacher and acknowledge John's achievements. Comparing John's teacher with Ip man is irrelevant. Different practitioners, different styles and different acheivements.
    Yes- a lot of people learned bits and pieces of wing chun from Ip man- most got a superficial understanding of the art. A mere handful learned wing chun in depth.
    Ip Man in his time was involved in real fights--without You tube videos. He was known and respected in Foshan before the post civil war, hurting a person badly and being on the losing Kuomintang side had him head for Macao and then Hong Kong. he represented the Foshan community in a well attended challenge match
    where he flung a well known Northern mantis master with a lop sao move. This not a defense of Ip Man because he needs no defender.

    I began wing chun in 1976- it is my core art-- though my continuous interest in martial arts including practical experience predates my wing chun and that broad interest continues today. My interest in wing chun had nothing to do with Bruce Lee and I did not know much about Ip Man initially.
    It is meeting my wing chun teacher-Augustine Fong and comparing things with him and his best students that got me started with with wing chun. From there my
    view of the wingchun world broadened with meeting other Ip man students including my sigung Ho Kam Ming (and many of his students later) Wong Shon Leung, Tsui tsong tin, Victor Kan and Hawkins Cheung and many in the next generation. So I found Ip Man by tracing him backwards from the empirical world
    and I have never regretted it. A girl friend of one of my past wing chun students has seen Ip man in action.Her father was a private student. Some kicking artists showed up and challenged Ip Man- the old man threw them all over the place.I have worked out with folks from most major striking and grappling arts... and have trained several topflight students. Real wing chun is a substantial and still relatively unknown style of non sporting self defense.

    Based on all this. I can tell you that John's understanding of wing chun is quite superficial. He worked out with a couple of wing chun people- college students in Austin and he knows another underachiever whose bad biu gee looks similar to John's. He only after some "techniques " in wing chun and he has it wrong.
    Double tan sao is nota technique- it is a developmental motion for developing some attributes.John cannot add wing chun to his trophy collection.

  14. #119
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Great Lakes State, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,645
    I am also a Cherry Picker of Techniques. I limit my practice to only that which I will use without reservation. If I speak of a technique on this forum it will only be WingChun, otherwise I will seek out a thread or start one in another forum that has to do with anything unrelated to the art. *Quote on the subject : He taught them short bridge and narrow stance (短橋窄馬) instead and modified the big stance to the er zi qian yang stance (二字箝羊馬) [a pair of pliers on a goat]. In practice, the two feet were about a foot apart and the two knees were but a few inches apart. In such a position, the feet would be like a pair of pliers (箝), and if you were riding on a goat’s neck, it would not be able to free its head and escape because of the force of your feet and that was why it was so named.

  15. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by PalmStriker View Post
    I am also a Cherry Picker of Techniques. I limit my practice to only that which I will use without reservation. If I speak of a technique on this forum it will only be WingChun, otherwise I will seek out a thread or start one in another forum that has to do with anything unrelated to the art. *Quote on the subject : He taught them short bridge and narrow stance (短橋窄馬) instead and modified the big stance to the er zi qian yang stance (二字箝羊馬) [a pair of pliers on a goat]. In practice, the two feet were about a foot apart and the two knees were but a few inches apart. In such a position, the feet would be like a pair of pliers (箝), and if you were riding on a goat’s neck, it would not be able to free its head and escape because of the force of your feet and that was why it was so named.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Diversity and chaos in the wing chun world. The stance is sometimes also called the character two adduction stance.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •